[PhilNYC]

On a whim after talking with a couple of audiophile friends, I tried changing my jumper setup on my speakers.  Originally, I ran my speaker cables to the low-frequency terminals on my speakers, then jumped from the low terminals to the high terminals.  I just changed it so that the speaker cables run to the high terminals, then jump down to the low terminals. 

Whoa...! 

I wasn't expecting to hear much difference, but the results are stunning quite frankly.  Soundstage has opened up, detail has increased by more than I thought possible...I am 99% sure I am not imagining the differences. 

Anyone else have an ability to try this?  I've done it to two of my systems, and in both cases the changes were not small...

[zybar]

Phil,

I can try this with my Salk HT3's sometime in the next few days.

I currently have the speaker cables going to the bass binding posts.

George

[PhilNYC]

George...great, please do try it.  I'm definitely curious to hear what you think...

[LightFire]

On a whim after talking with a couple of audiophile friends, I tried changing my jumper setup on my speakers.  Originally, I ran my speaker cables to the low-frequency terminals on my speakers, then jumped from the low terminals to the high terminals.  I just changed it so that the speaker cables run to the high terminals, then jump down to the low terminals. 

Whoa...! 

I wasn't expecting to hear much difference, but the results are stunning quite frankly.  Soundstage has opened up, detail has increased by more than I thought possible...I am 99% sure I am not imagining the differences. 

Anyone else have an ability to try this?  I've done it to two of my systems, and in both cases the changes were not small...

Congratulations! You just disproved Ohm's law!!
You should submit your works to be evaluated by the scientific community. You may be up to a Nobel Prize!
This is the most outrageously ridiculous claim I have seen in this board (and I have seen lots of bad ones). This is the equivalent of disproving the Law of Gravity. It is so absurd that it actually beats the "power-cord-makes-a-difference-in-system-sound" claim.

[PhilNYC]

Congratulations! You just disproved Ohm's law!!
You should submit your works to be evaluated by the scientific community. You may be up to a Nobel Prize!
This is the most outrageously ridiculous claim I have seen in this board (and I have seen lots of bad ones). This is the equivalent of disproving the Law of Gravity. It is so absurd that it actually beats the "power-cord-makes-a-difference-in-system-sound" claim.

Yes, and because I'm a dealer, I must be saying this to sell you something, right? 

I haven't proven anything.  I simply shared an experience and asked if someone else could try it and see if they experienced the same thing.

And I'm more than happy to have you over to my house to hear the difference a power cord can make...

[zybar]

Congratulations! You just disproved Ohm's law!!
You should submit your works to be evaluated by the scientific community. You may be up to a Nobel Prize!
This is the most outrageously ridiculous claim I have seen in this board (and I have seen lots of bad ones). This is the equivalent of disproving the Law of Gravity. It is so absurd that it actually beats the "power-cord-makes-a-difference-in-system-sound" claim.

What part of Ohm's Law (see below) did he disprove by saying he heard a difference?

1. Ohm's Law deals with the relationship between voltage and current in an ideal conductor. This relationship states that:

The potential difference (voltage) across an ideal conductor is proportional to the current through it.

 The constant of proportionality is called the "resistance", R.

Ohm's Law is given by:

      V = I R

where V is the potential difference between two points which include a resistance R. I is the current flowing through the resistance. For biological work, it is often preferable to use the conductance, g = 1/R; In this form Ohm's Law is:

      I = g V


George

[PhilNYC]

Hey George...I actually think my observation is an example of Ohms Law in action.  There's no question that the current passing thru the jumpers is different depending on whether you jump from low-to-high vs. high-to-low.  Additionally, when connecting the speaker cables to the low terminal, R is different at the low terminal than when you connect the speaker cables to the high terminal (because the resistence in the speaker cable is different from the resistence of the jumper).

So unfortunately, my Nobel prize will have to wait... 

[Occam]

When I was multi wiring my speakers, many a moon ago, I also found it preferable to connect the cables to the treble and jump to the bass. This works far more effectively the lower the quality of the jumpers. The effect is still there, regardless of the jumpers used. One might posit that any intermediation is more apparent in the treble than in the bass.... dunno.

[LightFire]

Congratulations! You just disproved Ohm's law!!
You should submit your works to be evaluated by the scientific community. You may be up to a Nobel Prize!
This is the most outrageously ridiculous claim I have seen in this board (and I have seen lots of bad ones). This is the equivalent of disproving the Law of Gravity. It is so absurd that it actually beats the "power-cord-makes-a-difference-in-system-sound" claim.

What part of Ohm's Law (see below) did he disprove by saying he heard a difference?

1. Ohm's Law deals with the relationship between voltage and current in an ideal conductor. This relationship states that:

The potential difference (voltage) across an ideal conductor is proportional to the current through it.

 The constant of proportionality is called the "resistance", R.

Ohm's Law is given by:

      V = I R

where V is the potential difference between two points which include a resistance R. I is the current flowing through the resistance. For biological work, it is often preferable to use the conductance, g = 1/R; In this form Ohm's Law is:

      I = g V


George

Perhaps he more like contradicted Kirchhoff's circuit law instead, where it says that the sum of currents going to a certain point is equal to the sum of currents leaving that point. In other words. He said that a shorted circuit is not a shorted circuit. Still it is absurd.

[zybar]

Lightfire,

I think there are valid technical reasons (as stated above) that explain why the different connection methods can sound different.

Other than your outlandish words and behavior, you have provided no technical evidence or reasons to support your claims.

George

[mtodde]

I noticed a nice difference when doing this on my Paradigm Signature 4s.  It wasn't as dramatic as replacing the gold plated strips with real jumpers be it was significant.

I would imagine that the more resolving your system is the more you would notice this.

[PhilNYC]

Perhaps he more like contradicted Kirchhoff's circuit law instead, where it says that the sum of currents going to a certain point is equal to the sum of currents leaving that point. In other words. He said that a shorted circuit is not a shorted circuit. Still it is absurd.

Where in my observation did I say that the total current in the system is changed?  My observation is completely consistent with Kirchoff's circuit law...

1-When the "point" is the low frequency terminal (ie. when the speaker cable is connected to the low terminal), the current flowing out of the low terminal goes out two paths...to the jumper and to the woofer...and the total current flowing out equals the total current flowing in.  
2-When the "point" is the high frequency terminal (ie. when the speaker cable is connected to the high terminal), the current flowing out of the high terminal goes out two paths...the jumper and the tweeter.  

In each case, it's entirely possible...entirely likely...that the way the current divides at the "point" is very different from the other setup, so that in each respective setup, the low frequency circuit will see a different current flow, as will the high frequency circuit.

I'm actually glad you brought these things up, because it now makes much more sense to me as to why I'm actually hearing the difference.  In one system, I like the change very much...in the other system, I think it has made the system sound a little bright/fatiguing.  I now know why...thanks!  

[PhilNYC]

Paul and mtodde..thanks for your observations.  FYI - I did find the difference to be greater than when I just replaced the plate jumpers with "real" jumpers, although my system and setup has improved greatly since I first replaced those plate jumpers...maybe if I went back to them, the change would be much more noticeable...

[LightFire]

Lightfire,

I think there are valid technical reasons (as stated above) that explain why the different connection methods can sound different.

Other than your outlandish words and behavior, you have provided no technical evidence or reasons to support your claims.

George

Well. If he wants to contradict some very basic Physics laws he is the one obligated to show evidence to back up his claims. And if he can back them up, believe me, he will get a Noble Prize.
Now perhaps I got something wrong but, if I am right those bi-amping jumpers are like thick, large, and a few inches long gold plated copper, which consists in a short circuit! Whatever arrives in one pole goes to the other pole in a speed very close to the speed of light. It consists of electrons flowing at near speed of light in a distance of a few inches!!!
Can you feel the "pain" now?!
 

[PhilNYC]

Now perhaps I got something wrong but, if I am right those bi-amping jumpers are like thick, large, and a few inches long gold plated copper, which consists in a short circuit! Whatever arrives in one pole goes to the other pole in a speed very close to the speed of light. It consists of electrons flowing at near speed of light in a distance of a few inches!!!
Can you feel the "pain" now?!
 

I think the part that you are getting wrong is to think that when you hook up a speaker cable to the low terminal, the only place the current can go is thru the jumper to the high terminal.  This is not correct...it splits, with some of the current going thru the jumper and some current going to the woofer.  In the case where the speaker cable is hooked up to the high terminal, some of the current flows thru the jumper, and the rest flows thru the tweeter.  So Kirchoff's Circuit Law remains intact, but the distribution of current flow is not consistent from one setup to the other.

On the street where I grew up, there are 3 Nobel Prize winners (all for Physics)...I wish I could earn the 4th, but I am pretty sure I'm not disproving any laws of physics here...

[LightFire]

Now perhaps I got something wrong but, if I am right those bi-amping jumpers are like thick, large, and a few inches long gold plated copper, which consists in a short circuit! Whatever arrives in one pole goes to the other pole in a speed very close to the speed of light. It consists of electrons flowing at near speed of light in a distance of a few inches!!!
Can you feel the "pain" now?!
 

I think the part that you are getting wrong is to think that when you hook up a speaker cable to the low terminal, the only place the current can go is thru the jumper to the high terminal.  This is not correct...it splits, with some of the current going thru the jumper and some current going to the woofer.  In the case where the speaker cable is hooked up to the high terminal, some of the current flows thru the jumper, and the rest flows thru the tweeter.  So Kirchoff's Circuit Law remains intact, but the distribution of current flow is not consistent from one setup to the other.

On the street where I grew up, there are 3 Nobel Prize winners (all for Physics)...I wish I could earn the 4th, but I am pretty sure I'm not disproving any laws of physics here...

Obviously you are not disproving anything. The "current split" is negligible (things moving at speed of light, remember?) And when  I say negligible it means way beyond the capability of measurement instruments detection, let alone the human hearing.

[yo2tup]

Yeah I've noticed the improvement on my Trentes.  I've been getting the best results running like this:  red cable to the red terminal on the tweeter with a jumper to the woofer,  then  black cable to the black terimal on the woofer, with the jumper to the tweeter.   it sounds much more open better than the "standard" configuration

[PhilNYC]

Obviously you are not disproving anything. The "current split" is negligible (things moving at speed of light, remember?) And when  I say negligible it means way beyond the capability of measurement instruments detection, let alone the human hearing.

So then what's your explanation as to why I'm hearing differences?  Placebo?  I really wish you could come over to hear this, because the difference is not small...I've done other tweaks where I have to really listen hard to hear the changes and wonder whether or not I'm really hearing them.  But not this one...this one, the difference is pretty startling.  In one of my systems, I'm actually finding it not to my liking...

[EDS_]

On a whim after talking with a couple of audiophile friends, I tried changing my jumper setup on my speakers.  Originally, I ran my speaker cables to the low-frequency terminals on my speakers, then jumped from the low terminals to the high terminals.  I just changed it so that the speaker cables run to the high terminals, then jump down to the low terminals. 

Whoa...! 

I wasn't expecting to hear much difference, but the results are stunning quite frankly.  Soundstage has opened up, detail has increased by more than I thought possible...I am 99% sure I am not imagining the differences. 

Anyone else have an ability to try this?  I've done it to two of my systems, and in both cases the changes were not small...

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll try it on my rig this weekend.

[tdangelo]

Funny,  I tried this just before RMAF.  I used to have the Straley cables going to bass and and Straley jumpers to the mids/tweets.  Sounded great but I tried some Nordost Flatline2 jumpers and the added silver sounded better - then I got some longer Rapport speaker cables(going to need in my new room) and put them on the tweets with the Straley on the bass.  Awesome - smoother highs and better more defined bass.  THEN I tried the Rapports on the tweets/mids and the original DIYcables Exodus jumpers that came with my RAW speakers.  WHOA - even better bass and the system just sounds more integrated.  I tried it with the Rapport on the bass and DIY on the tweets and the system sounded dark and dry - I moved them back and have been extremely happy since   Now everytime I sit to listen my feet immediatly start moving to the music.  IMO it does make a huge difference... YMMV