[sdiver]

I'm currently running 3 Paradigm Studio 40 V2's in front and 2 Studio 20's in back.  I'm moving to a new house in a month, and I'm pretty sure I'm going away from the dedicated HT room concept, more into integrating my system into the main living area.  As such, 5 large boxes on stands will not fit the decor nor be kid friendly.

So, I'm debating between the 6.9, 5.2, 4.1 bundle in blue Syn Marble

or

the 5.1, 4.0 bundle

Opinions?  With the new house, I could stand to save money at this point, but if the higher option is what is required to at least match my current performance, I could find the difference

Oh, I run the front 3 channels with B&K Reference 4420 Amps, and the rear 2 from my Denon 3801, and am still keeping my SVS 16-46 sub.

[jackman]

Congratulations on the new house.   I had a pair of 40's a while ago and thought they were good for HT but not my favorite for 2 channel listening due to their metal tweeters (and possibly the non-synergistic gear I was using at the time).  I've listened to all of the nOrh speakers except the SM 5.0's and feel they are very nicely constructed and cool looking.  They also sound very good and many people prefer them to Paradigm.  The Paradigms were very good with movies, however.  Broken glass and bullets flying sounded more freightening than the real thing.

As far as space, I don't know if nOrh is going to save you any more space than your current speakers.  All of the drum style speakers are rear ported so they don't like being placed too close to rear walls or in HT cabinets, and the 6.9's are VERY large.  They probably take up 25% more space than the Ref 40's and are much more difficult to place.  The 3.0's are very good but don't play loud enough for reference listening or most HT applications in average size rooms.  The website shows some speakers (4.0's) being hung (hanged?) from the ceiling but your wife may have something to say about that.  I find speakers hanging from the ceiling to be more obtrusive than ones sitting on stands.    

I'm not slamming nOrh.  They offer a very good value and their stuff is very distinctive and nicely constructed.  However, you may have challenges if you are looking to save space by replacing your current speakers.  You may want to look at Rutledge Audio (they are on this site, although the spelling may be off), other front ported smaller speakers.  They have a very small design that may work, however I don't know if it will play loud enough for main HT applications in a large room.  

Good luck,
J

[jqp]

sdiver -

I don't see this bundle:

the 6.9, 5.2, 4.1 bundle in blue Syn Marble

I believe that bundle is wood prism speakers. Prisms are beautiful, but if looks and floorstanding speakers are not first priority, I think you would be happier with inert drums for this application.

This would give a great integrated system for the money:

SM 6.9 Video System - 1 pair SM 6.9 and 3 Ceramic 4.0 (1 shielded) 1,500.00  

The SM6.9 gives you some good volume and tight base (See Alex's reviews on Harmonic Discord for HT use). Ceramic 4.0s are almost as good as the Marble 4.0s.

[sdiver]

Jackman-

Wife?  Nah!  and thanks!

IMHO, the Paradigm Studios (any speakers, for that matter) are sensitive to electronics, room, and placement.  I agree the Studio series can tend toward bright being driven by a typical decent receiver and/or in a bright room.  However, with a carpet/stuffed furniture room driven by, in my case, B&K Ref amps and placement experimented with by the inch and angle, lol, they sound great in 2 channel, and maybe a little less dynamic but more realistic for HT.

Its not only space, but also the looks of the speakers.  I was planing on 2 Bello ATC-2111M racks on both sides of my RPTV.  I could put each of the 2 main L/R speakers inside the rack.  Being an open rack, the port could fire all the way to the rear wall.  I know, not ideal, but I figured the "modern art" look of the speakers in blue may look OK inside the Bello Stands.  Thoughts?

jgp-

Doh!  Thanks!  I did completely misread the price list.  Your combo does make better sense!  So I guess the questions become:

1) Is the SM5.1 worth it versus the ceramic 4.0?  I'm not too worried about shielding as my current speakers are unshielded and don't have a picture impact on my RPTV.

2)  Do the ceramic 4.0/SM5.1 have good/great/excellent timbre matching with the SM6.9?  I love the transparent HT soundstage I now enjoy with 3 identical speakers across the front (and their smaller brothers in back).

[nathanm]

I have Prism 6.6 left and right and a 4.1 Prism center channel for watching movies.  (rears aren't hooked up presently) They sound pretty good, but I worry about sending them so much hyped movie bass.  The cones flap alot but you don't hear much.  Unfortunately my Doubly 5.1 Decoder's "bass management" doohickey rolls off at 120Hz which basically weakens the  sound way too much if you enable it.  Way too high of an XO point!  If I were to do it over I would definitely go with identical speakers all around instead of having a center speaker of different design. The 4.1 is a very cute little speaker though.  Drop it though, and that tweeter mount will be the first to go! heh!

[HarleyMYK]

I think my setup may be close to what you are thinking about (see below):



Everything is actually quite a bit larger than it seems in this picture.  I wish I had remembered to put a CD case in the picture for perspective.

The speakers are SM mini-9's that are exactly the same size as the SM 5.1 and significantly smaller than the 6.9.

The mini 9's are very good for stereo, but the imaging is not as good as it might be because the rear ports are too close to the wall.

The most important speaker for home theater and 5.1 music is the center speaker.  The 4.1, while a good value, does not compare to the mini-9's as far a detail goes.  I wish there was a shielded "9.1" that sounded as good as the mini-9's in the 4.1 form factor.

[sdiver]

Thanks for the advice on the timbre matching, and love the pic!

Hmmm...maybe 3 6.9's...or 3 6.1's...across the front....or quit trying to reinvent the wheel! LOL

[Tyson]

Go with identical speakers across the front, for HT is is very important.  3 mini-9.0's would be absolutely killer, but for a lower budget, I still like the marble/ceramic 4.0's all around as the best budget HT setup I've heard (paired with a good sub, of course).

[Johng316]

I have had the following front-three combinations in my HT system:

1)  2 wood 4.0's and a prism 4.1 center

2)  2 wood 4.0's and a marble 4.0 center

3)  --> present system:  2 SM 6.9's and a marble 4.0 center.

All of these are excellent and progressively better.

I found the Prism 4.1 to have a lot of cabinet resonance.  It had a different sonic character than the wood 4.0 drum, even though they use the exact same drivers.  I had the 4.1 on the floor for a while, and at high volumes, i could feel the cabinet resonance transferring into the floor to tickle my feet 10 feet away.

Once I upgraded to marble 4.0 center, I could play at very high volumes and the center channel was crystal clear.  A very good upgrade from the prism 4.1.

Next, I got a good deal on the SM 6.9's, so I went for those.  Once the 6.9's were installed and broken in, I could play louder still.  I didn't realize there was slight cabinet resonance "fuzz" introduced to the sound of the wood 4.0's until I got the SM 6.9, and they were clean all the way.

I find the SM 6.9 and the 4.0 center blend extremely well.  However, I would have to say that I think for HT getting the 5x ceramic 4.0's is probably the best deal in HT.  With the 6.9's for mains, you'll get higher performance in 2-channel audio (assuming the right upstream electronic gear).

Now, you are considering the 5.1 package.  The 5.1 uses the same drivers as the 4.0's, but have a slightly larger cabinet (more bass extention).  Assuming you are planning to add a good sub for HT and cross the sub over at 80 Hz, there is no need for the extra bass extention on the 5.1.  4.0 and 5.1 should be identical in that application, so you are better off going with the 4.0 (for cost and exact speaker matching advantage).

If you plan on a lot of 2-channel and have good upstream electronics, go for the 6.9 / 4.0 combo.  Otherwise, for majority of HT, go for the 4.0 ceramic package (or marble).

G'luck,

John G

[jqp]

If you plan on a lot of 2-channel and have good upstream electronics, go for the 6.9 / 4.0 combo. Otherwise, for majority of HT, go for the 4.0 ceramic package (or marble).

Great story/review! I agree(d)

And are you JohnG from HD?

[Johng316]

And are you JohnG from HD?

Yep!  Dat's me!

John G

[jqp]

Great to see you over here.

I have created a new avatar for you.



Always thought you had one of the great HD avatars...

[Johng316]

Hahahaaaaa!

JQP, you da MAN!

I'll take it, proudly.

John G

[sdiver]

John,

Does a Denon 3801 used as a pre/pro, with B&K Ref 4420 amps, qualify as "good" upstream electronics?  I will admit I use my Pana RP-56 for both DVD's and CD's  

Actually, I think I've decided to go with 2 mini-9.0's and 3 4.0's if I choose Norh  

[Johng316]

SDiver,

Yes, I think you'll be quite pleased with that combo.  I think you'd be disappointed if you tried to run SM 6.9's or the mini-9's off the amp section of an AV Receiver.  I use an Onkyo 787 as Pre with Le Amps and I am very happy.  I've also tried the Mapleshade Golden Helix speaker cables and found them to be a very interesting bargain.

You'll be very happy, but I think that you'll also find that upgrades to the upstream gear will be noticeable with the speakers you've chosen.  It's all part of the fun of the hobby.

One thing to consider about the mini-9's is that they probably won't play as loud as the 6.9's, but if you're crossing over at 80 hz to a sub, this is probably going to be not a large problemo.

Let us know how you like them once you get them!!

To improve your 2-channel performance over time, consider adding a 2-channel pre-amp with HT passthrough and possibly a higher quality CD player for source.  Do this when you get the bucks.  Otherwise, I'm sure you'll be happy with this setup as long as you have a good sub on tap.

John G

[jqp]

Johng316 -

Did you sell your wood 4.0s in the process of getting your current setup? You could have had wood 4.0 surrounds...did you get to try the system with 5 drum speakers?

[jqp]

John,

Does a Denon 3801 used as a pre/pro, with B&K Ref 4420 amps, qualify as "good" upstream electronics?  I will admit I use my Pana RP-56 for both DVD's and CD's  

Actually, I think I've decided to go with 2 mini-9.0's and 3 4.0's if I choose Norh  

I am pretty skeptical of receivers in the chain after my experience with a Yamaha receiver vs. the Multiamps and the Le Amps. That is why I don't yet have a HT pre/pro. I am holding out for something like the Sabai from IRD. And keep in mind my HT is just a two channel! But B&K Ref 4420 amps sound impressive and are probably much more of an impact on the sound. I would try to listen to different upstream gear to see if you can tell a difference once you get your speakers.

[ABEX]

SDiver:
I use a Modified B&K ST-202 with an  FT Audio LW-1 Passive Controller that is really nice. I do not have experience with your Denon,but out of most of the Japanese Manfs. I always thought highly of Denon.

You should have no trouble driving most any speakers with that amp. I am looking at VMPS speakers at the moment and they would have a bigger impedance drop I would imagine.

Happy Listening!

[Johng316]

Johng316 -

Did you sell your wood 4.0s in the process of getting your current setup? You could have had wood 4.0 surrounds...did you get to try the system with 5 drum speakers?

Yes!  My original setup was 4x 4.0 drums plus 1x 4.1 prism center all running off an Onkyo 787 with a pair of SVS 20-39's for bass support.  This was a fantastic combo for music and movies, but I was not happy with the center.  

UPGRAGE 1  I found a used black marble 4.0 for $200, so I bought it and moved the Prism to rear center and ran 6.1 off the onkyo.  BIG improvement with the inert center channel.

UPGRADE 2  Then, I got wind of an opportunity to upgrade to the SM 6.9 mains for $600.  I dove on it and sold the pair of 4.0's that were my mains to make room for the 6.9's.  Setup was now 6.9 mains, marble 4.0 center, wood 4.0 surrounds, and 4.1 prism rear center (great application for this speaker).  I was initially less-happy with the SM 6.9 than I was with the 4.0 becuase the 6.9 revealed the "flaws" in my Onkyo's amp section.  It was overly brite and bad recordings really sounded BAD.

UPGRADE 3  From there, I bought a pair of Le Amps to drive the SM 6.9's and became much happier.  The 6.9's are much more listenable with a better amp section, and now I like them much better than the wood 4.0's.  They are more detailed, etc.  

JQP, I would suggest you run your gear from a receiver, but put an upgraded amp section on the front three.  Rear speaker activity tends to be periodic at best, and your ears won't really have the opportunity to tell you "that sounds bad."  On the front, you will certainly notice.  Buy a good receiver and let the internal amp section power your rear 2-3 speakers, and you'll enjoy it.  Spend most of your money on the front 3, because that's where 90% + of your sound is coming from (100% in 2-channel).  If you want to combine your HT with 2-channel, get a dedicated pre-amp for 2-channel that has an HT passthrough circuit, and you can take the receiver completely out for 2-channel listening.

I have been extremely happy with the above and haven't changed anything (except for the Mapleshade Golden Helix speaker wires and upgraded drivers in the SVS) in over a year.  I know, that's audiophile heresy, but I am really happy.  

Good luck!

John G