Dedicated circuit power cable from power pannel to AMP ?

oris98 · « **on:** 4 Oct 2006, 08:03 pm »

Hi all,

I am planning on setting up a sub power-pannel in my audio room to provide 2 dedicated 20amp circuit to 1) amp and 2) preamp, SB3, EA-DAC1 + Projector (digital gear).
For the concept of less connection the better, I am wondering if I should hard wire the BX cable from the sub-pannel directly to my power amp ? ie, connect a IEC plug at one end of the BX cable plug into my amp and the other end wired diect into the sub-pannel ? Any drawbacks for this approach ? My main goal is sonic quality.
For the second circuitry , I am planning on hard wire BX able via IEC plug to my PS Audio P600 (power regenerator) and connect direct to the sub-pannel. I will then use a good power cord to extend power from P600 to an Isoclean 4 socket power bar for power distribution to the digital gear. Any comment on this ?

Many thanks in advance..

woodsyi · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 08:20 pm »

Overkill.

I used this as a subpanel box. http://www.zerosurge.com/PDF/PM20_120b.pdf

Good luck.

budyog · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 08:32 pm »

Extreme overkill!

: 1-20 amp circuit is plenty to run all your equipment and them some. Just run some 12 gauge romex from your main panel to an outlet box, plug in you conditioner and or power strip, plug in your equipment, crack open a couple of good beers and sit back and enjoy the music/video.
You do not need 2-20 amp outlets. That is enough to power a heavy duty work shop of power tools going all at once!

oris98 · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 09:01 pm »

I thought the analog equipment like a power amp should be isolated out from the digital gear due to bi-directional noise generated ?

My amp suck 500W when it is idel and my preamp sucks 120W idel.. I was planning to use Virtual Dynamic's BX cable for this project.

budyog · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 09:09 pm »

Oris, There is no way your amp and preamp are sucking that much power at idle.

To use that much power you have to have it cranked at full volume! I do not know of any bi-directional noise bla bla, You must have all kinds of shorts going on here. Keeping the digital stuff from the analog stuf in the AC department is a bunch of rubbish.

Wayner · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 09:10 pm »

Violates the National Electical Code.

W

JoshK · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 09:18 pm »

Quote from: oris98 on 4 Oct 2006, 09:01 pm

I thought the analog equipment like a power amp should be isolated out from the digital gear due to bi-directional noise generated ?

If you do that you are likely to create a nice ground loop between the two systems even if you were clever enough to make sure they were on the same phase. This results in a nice audible hum. Keep it simple, just use one like others said.

Quote

My amp suck 500W when it is idel and my preamp sucks 120W idel.. I was planning to use Virtual Dynamic's BX cable for this project.

20 amps x 120 V = 2,400 watts. Mind you this is the limit for sustained draw, instantaneous draw can be a bit higher. You are cruising at 620W draw, in use with all your source gear runing you aren't likely to hit 1000w draw, except on loud peaks. You are fine with one dedicated line.

budyog · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 09:26 pm »

Oris, Check this link out from BAT. Hope this helps.
Scroll down to where it talks about a dedicated circuit.

http://www.balanced.com/faq/index.html

oris98 · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 09:35 pm »

If that is the case, will my current circuit (general houshold sockets in 15amp) be sufficient to handle the load ? I turn them all on when I watch movies. I don't dare to watch movie since I acquired my 2 channel amp and preamp as I worry it will blow the fuse.

I did plan on wiring the two circuits on the same phase to avoid hum or ground loop though. Thanks again.

AMP 500w Idle
Preamp 120w Idel
Benchmark DAC1 ?w
SB3 12VDC but mainly battery operated
PS Audio P600
Project 120-140w operating power
HT Receive 110W (6.1 channel)
1 HT subwoofer (400W max)
2x ACI subwoofer (250W max)

budyog · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 09:52 pm »

15 amps is usually adequate, but for us extremes, we like lot of power. One dedicated 20 amp circuit would be nice to have and you should consider it. Also, how you turn on your equipment can make a difference. Plugging everything into a power strip for example and then flicking that power strip switch will more than likely blow the circuit. If you do like I do and that is, preamp 1st, source 2ND, amps 3rd and off in the reverse order, you will probably not blow a circuit.
I still cannot believe that your amp and preamp suck that much power at idle. That cannot be true! If it is true, I would hate to see what kind of power they draw when you are enjoying the music. If those amps draw that much power, it would be hard to enjoy the music because I would be thinking that every song I here cost me a lot of money to listen too and is it worth that much?

Occam · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 10:00 pm »

While thouroughly disconcerted by Wayner's icon, you really should listen to his admonishment. Wiring code violations are sufficient for an insurance adjuster to void any claim regardless of the actual damage's cause. No electrician or PE is going to certify or stand behind such a implementation. If you're spending money on the electrical infrastructure, you obviously have equity. Don't risk it for whatever incremental benefit.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 10:37 pm »

Quote from: budyog on 4 Oct 2006, 09:09 pm

Oris, There is no way your amp and preamp are sucking that much power at idle. To use that much power you have to have it cranked at full volume! I do not know of any bi-directional noise bla bla, You must have all kinds of shorts going on here. Keeping the digital stuff from the analog stuf in the AC department is a bunch of rubbish.

Since nobody has pointed out the error in this yet - Class A amps draw the same current at idle as full-power. Makes no difference. My 28W SET monoblocks, for instance, draw 150W each at idle, and standing near them will convince you of this.

It looks like Oris didn't post what type amp he has, but it is certainly quite possible that it draws 500W at idle.

oris98 · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 10:44 pm »

Hi all, I am not quit understand which part of my plan may cause the wiring code violation ? Wiring directly to my amp via IEC plug from the breaker pannel ? Can someone clarify ? Thanks.

My am is the BAT VK60 which is certainly a heater of the room. But I am not sure is it consider a class A or AB amp ?

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 11:06 pm »

The BAT's topology is a little strange, but they say it's single-ended - if that's true, it must be class A.

bubba966 · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Oct 2006, 12:17 am »

Why are you bothering to put a sub panel in? That's just one more connection between your electrical panel and your system that you don't need. Just run the dedicated circuit straight to the panel. That's much better than main panel to sub panel to your system.

I don't have an NEC book on hand to tell you why hardwiring an IEC plug straight to the BX would be a code violation. But I'd guess it'd have something to do with the BX being unsecured to the wall from between the amp & the wall. I can't think of any other reason offhand.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Oct 2006, 01:11 am »

Quote from: bubba966 on 5 Oct 2006, 12:17 am

Why are you bothering to put a sub panel in? That's just one more connection between your electrical panel and your system that you don't need. Just run the dedicated circuit straight to the panel. That's much better than main panel to sub panel to your system.

Listen to Cornholio. This is the way most all-out installations do it.

"!need AC... AC for my bunghole!..."

warnerwh · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Oct 2006, 01:58 am »

Don't put in a new line without checking what code is first. In most areas you need a permit from the city to put in a new line. They will send someone out for a consulation to help if you need.

If you don't understand exactly what is going on then please hire an electrician. The current in a breaker box can easily be lethal. If you're not upto code an insurance company can deny a claim in a fire. Sticking to code is not the difficult. The inspectors however can sometimes be a pain the ass. That's why if you have the electrical guy give you a consulation it may be a good idea.

Whatever you do you must have a receptacle at the end of the power line. A receptacle must be mounted in a box a certain distance from the floor. If it's a metal box it must be grounded. Romex must be stapled every 4' or less or supported through studs/joists. The height may matter and will vary by location. A staple is required within about 8" of a plastic box or 10" of a metal box. If this sounds like stuff you don't know than an electrician is what you need. Many times you can hire someone without a license as you're doing your own home. You obtain the permit and the person doing the wiring can do it properly for you. Then you have the inspector sign it off. This is cheaper than a licensed electrican but unless you know what's going on you can end up with more problems. That or if you know someone who knows what they're doing.

I hope you understand house wiring is something that has strict requirements. Doing it properly isn't that difficult. Plumbing can do damage to your home if it leaks but electricity can kill someone.

oris98 · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Oct 2006, 04:03 am »

Thanks for all the advice.. In fact, I am hiring a licenced electrician to do the wiring for me. I ran through my plan to him and he seems ok with my plan. I live in Canada and not sure if there are any wiring code differences to most of the folks here who live in US. The reason for going through a sub-panel is I can use less expensive virtual Dynamic (VD) BX cable. Based on the suggestion from the electrician, 2 x 120v hot and ground wires coming from the main panel to my audio room (50-60 feet) and VD bx cable from sub-panel to the recipicals (20 feet).

I have seen someone have a bx cable with a metal box hanging out for their audio equipment before. But, he may not compliant to the wiring code also..

I certainly will not risk of violating the code and void my insurance coverage. I will double check with my electrician before I do anything..

Many thanks again.

JLM · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Oct 2006, 09:50 am »

When we built a new house last year I had three dedicated 12 gauge/20 amp circuits run to the front of my man cave/listening room. All three circuits are tied to a separate ground from the rest of the house and serve a single cryo'd hospital grade Hubbell duplex receptacle. The receptacles are 32 inches apart. Each monoblock is plugged into one of the "outside" receptacles. The pre-amp and CD are plugged into the center receptacle.

With a new underground service to the house we have our own transformer. All appliances are new. All wiring is 12 gauge with minimum 20 amp circuits. We're in the country with very little industry around to muddy the waters. The audio receptacles are within 20 feet of the panel. The only thing I didn't get was to have the audio circuits wired into the top of the panel. Except for the receptacles, the price for all this was included with the house, so the $100 was cheaper than a conditioner. BTW I've heard dirty power, but never heard a conditioner help much. But I'm sure in many settings they make a ton of sense.

JoshK · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Oct 2006, 01:33 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 5 Oct 2006, 09:50 am

All three circuits are tied to a separate ground from the rest of the house and serve a single cryo'd hospital grade Hubbell duplex receptacle.

I was under the impression that this was a violation of code and dangerous. Maybe you have a different scheme than I am thinking. Where is the ground tied?

If the hot and neutral are obtained from the main panel but ground is not, I'd imagine there is potential (pun?) to have a voltage difference between the ground at the panel and the auxiliary ground. This could cause a ground loop between the neutral and the aux ground.

I am not shaking my finger at you, I am just trying to understand.