Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?

Harmon · « **Reply #1500 on:** 18 Apr 2007, 04:46 pm »

This is my first time I am writing about the dual mono reference Promethius TVC which was shipped to me about a month ago. My system is a simple one having a CD player and Tuner as sources, the TVC , an amp and two way speakers. First of all without going into sonic details the Promethius TVC is IMHO an excellent preamp that easily competes with the big boys. There is a saying among audiophiles that there is no preamp like no preamp. In other words the best preamp is no preamp. I performed a little experiment. My amp, Parasound Halo A-21, has two gain controls in the back one for each channel which allowed me to connect my CD player directly to the amp bypassing the TVC and still allowing attenuation of volume so as not to blow out the drivers in my speakers. There did not seem to be any discernable difference or extremely minor difference if any in the sound, to my ears, when comparing the sound of my system with the TVC than without it. Except for those who prefer to color the sound with preamps that add color my preference is to try to have a preamp that reveals the sonics of the source changing it as little as possible. So the highest compliment I can give a preamp would be to say that a preamp sounds like no preamp. The reason that so many people love this TVC is because, in my opinion, it sounds like there is no preamp.

rollo · « **Reply #1501 on:** 18 Apr 2007, 05:49 pm »

Hey Harmon,
Glad to see you happy. I have a Phillips SACD 1000 as well sitting here broken. Tried numerous outlets for repair with zero success. The one and only company out there to fix said parts no longer available. Bummer as the SACD 1000 was very good with SACD. Any suggestions? Right now it is the best $3000 door stop money can buy, better yet it makes a good boat anchor. What a waste, Phillips should offer something for their customer, this stinks. I will never buy a Phillips product again. Buyer beware.

rollo

anubisgrau · « **Reply #1502 on:** 18 Apr 2007, 06:07 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 18 Apr 2007, 04:12 pm

That is about it without redesigning TVC. Maybe a forthcoming Statement version. What I envision is a remote controlled Shallco or equal attenuator and selector switch version with larger trannies with different core, say "R" core or "C" core, superior isolation of trannies, copper shielding of trannie, individual shielded wires for all inputs and out [ no busses] , better wiring for trannie and hook up, an all acrylic and wood enclosure with ebony cones screwed into base and Eichman Bullet type RCAs, and of course dual mono. External ground post connected to trannies and neg leg of RCAs.

avoid shallco if you are concerned with a sound quality

rollo · « **Reply #1503 on:** 18 Apr 2007, 06:26 pm »

Quote from: anubisgrau on 18 Apr 2007, 06:07 pm

Quote from: rollo on 18 Apr 2007, 04:12 pm

That is about it without redesigning TVC. Maybe a forthcoming Statement version. What I envision is a remote controlled Shallco or equal attenuator and selector switch version with larger trannies with different core, say "R" core or "C" core, superior isolation of trannies, copper shielding of trannie, individual shielded wires for all inputs and out [ no busses] , better wiring for trannie and hook up, an all acrylic and wood enclosure with ebony cones screwed into base and Eichman Bullet type RCAs, and of course dual mono. External ground post connected to trannies and neg leg of RCAs.

avoid shallco if you are concerned with a sound quality

Why is that?What have you compared too. What would you suggest using?

rollo

anubisgrau · « **Reply #1504 on:** 18 Apr 2007, 07:14 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 18 Apr 2007, 06:26 pm

Quote from: anubisgrau on 18 Apr 2007, 06:07 pm
Quote from: rollo on 18 Apr 2007, 04:12 pm

That is about it without redesigning TVC. Maybe a forthcoming Statement version. What I envision is a remote controlled Shallco or equal attenuator and selector switch version with larger trannies with different core, say "R" core or "C" core, superior isolation of trannies, copper shielding of trannie, individual shielded wires for all inputs and out [ no busses] , better wiring for trannie and hook up, an all acrylic and wood enclosure with ebony cones screwed into base and Eichman Bullet type RCAs, and of course dual mono. External ground post connected to trannies and neg leg of RCAs.

avoid shallco if you are concerned with a sound quality

Why is that?What have you compared too. What would you suggest using?

rollo

as you noticed from my posts, we are here pretty crazy about the TVCs and my very good audiophile friend bought the expensive shallco for his cost no object DIY TVC based on S&B 102 Mk3 transformers. it turned out that it's clearly less transparent and more lifeless than elna switch used in music first audio although the quality is top notch, no doubts

i personally dont like the sound of elna either, for different reasons - it is too polite for my taste but i understand everyone who likes it because it is really seducing in a way. that's why i have no problem recommending it as a safe bet.

i have a different taste in audio - i like when devices transmit the energy of real music even if they sacrifice usual audiophile qualities that actually don't exist in a real music hall such as 3D, transparency or whatever. that's maybe why i have no audiophile speakers but rather brutal studio monitors that sometimes sound like a sophisticated PA.

to my ears all the TVCs i heard with elna have this similar, distinctive politeness and refinement that i tend to see as an artifice.

the best results we've got with a switch we unfortunately can't identify, it is actually a wierd 80s german switch built like a german WW2 tank with (i think) 9 positions only (you can imagine how coarse are the steps;). its usability is really questionable, even apart from the fact we have 2 only, NOS clearance.

the only thing we could find out is that it is made of pure copper, no brass, no silver, no gold. every metal part is copper so we´ve got a hint. ever since we've realized that, i am trying to find a copper made switch or at least copper made, silver plated, no matter of cost, but it is crazy - such things are simply not produced anymore. copper is too expensive these days plus everyone believes it is only important what material it is plated with, forgetting that due to skin effect, signal goes deeper than the first few microns of plate.

i've even had a dispute with peter quortrup from audio note whose ignorance was a shock to me. i found at a certain website a very interesting audio note switch that was described as copper-made, silver plated. i asked more precisely about materials used because the colour was clearly not copper but brass alloy with unkown % of silver and peter said it could be made of plastercene or whatever as long as it is silver plated as signal travels only through the first few (9) surface microns. and that guy is one of the most respected audio engineers today.... i will buy that switch to test it anyway cause maybe i simply can't find better for that money

anyway if anybody can point me to a full copper made switch, or copper with silver plate, pls let me know, it will be highly appreciated.

Whitese · « **Reply #1505 on:** 18 Apr 2007, 07:38 pm »

I almost blew my ears out...i connected the TVC I got today..one of the older versions with wood flr and metal top, 4 inputs, 2 outputs....Now, I connected it to a vintage Hadley SS amp, and at the firt notch, it was like geeez...max volume, with volume bleeding thru even at notch 0./ The unit is set at -48dB.

I hope it works better with the little 13EM7 tube amp from Roger Modjeski that I also bought here at AC...

specs:
Gain is 12 dB and thus will not amplify preamp output hiss or hum as higher gain amps will. Sensitivity is 1volt input for 2.5 watts out. Input impedance 150 Kohms.
Size 12” wide, 6.5” deep, 3.5” high.
Options: 1). High impedance output for speakers over 8 ohms or for 8 ohm speakers where less damping is desired. 2). Change of internal filter frequency from 100 Hz supplied.

Whitese · « **Reply #1506 on:** 18 Apr 2007, 08:00 pm »

Me = DUFUS...although the drawing in Nick's instructions is the opposite as when he uses a real pic...lol

I shouild have known better though, as all inputs are gathered together...

Geez, you would have thought that after plugging and unplugging so much gear I would learn...

Its all Good Now

rollo · « **Reply #1507 on:** 18 Apr 2007, 09:22 pm »

Whitese,

Hey that amp looks nice. Good luck with it. Should rock with TVC. Let us know.

rollo

highdfever · « **Reply #1508 on:** 19 Apr 2007, 01:37 am »

Hi F-100,

I am using Odyssey Mono to drive my Dynaudio Contour 1.8. How do you compared Promitheus PVC to your previous preamp especially the Modwright and Odyssey?

Tks

lushds · « **Reply #1509 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 08:23 am »

I'm another satisfied TVC owner! After running the unit in for a good 2+ months, matching it with my custom made 12sn7 tube pre, I'm getting really nice sonics. The TVC is pretty remarkable in transparency and neutrality; and to me, portrays the tone/timbre of instruments very well.
I've also experimented with various footers - Nick's cones, Ebony pyramids, Myrtle wood etc. My favorite is the Ebony stuff. If there is anyone in the Phoenix area interested in an audition pls PM me. My humble budget setup consists of a Redwine modded Squeezebox3, a modded Monica DAC, DIY 12sn7 tube pre, Promitheus TVC, battery modded 'Charlize' Tripath monos and custom Fostex spkr ala Bob Brines

DS

anubisgrau · « **Reply #1510 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 11:57 am »

Quote from: lushds on 20 Apr 2007, 08:23 am

After running the unit in for a good 2+ months, matching it with my custom made 12sn7 tube pre, I'm getting really nice sonics. The TVC is pretty remarkable in transparency and neutrality; and to me, portrays the tone/timbre of instruments very well.

Hey, I am keeping forgetting to try the full on passive + active preamp assault, linking Promi to my EAR 864 active.

Can someone explain what's the best way to connect this? Should I run it into any free input of the active preamp just as any other source or what?

With 200 hours on it, I think it is great considering the price, but as rollo said there's quite a room for improvement. My only serious complaint is a usual TVC problem I hear also with S&B, a slight lack of drive & energy in lower registers. For example in a direct comparison with EAR 864, Promi goes noticeably deeper in bass, but has less of a "boogie" factor or PRaT if you want it like that. I am pretty sure this is a kind of coloration with EAR, but than this is where a DIY TVC we tested recently really excelled so I think an improvement with the TVC is also possible.

I wanna try this passive-active combo cause it may happen I manage to marry the best of both - clarity and transparency of the TVC and drive and 3D soundstage of the active.

My other complaints would be really a nut-picking, and all you need to do with this device is just to forget about it and enjoy the music.

rollo · « **Reply #1511 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 01:52 pm »

Anubisgru,

Your active probably will have too much gain to fully appreciate the EAR TVC combo. However to get a taste the experiment can be done by placing TVC before EAR. Connect outs from TVC to input of EAR. Turn volume of TVC to full gain and then use EAR volume control to adjust gain. If gain is too much adjust TVC volume control until you find a happy median.
Just to set the the record straight, I stated the TVC has room for improvement compared to the all out active preamps. At its price the TVC is untouchable. With the Promitheus active preamp added it is another level all together.
The source appears to be the component that really shows up when using TVC. Since the TVC is neutral to the source, you will hear the true sonic virtues of the source good or bad. Try changing the source as an experiment, you may be quite surprised as to the results. Have fun man.

cheers
rollo

P.S. what type of music do you listen to ?

gooberdude · « **Reply #1512 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 02:14 pm »

Hey Lushds,

Your system doesn't sound too humble!! very cool....

i was in your neck of the woods not long ago for the last round of Spring Training. Its necessary to get out of Chicago mid-winter and go enjoy the Sun. so many hotties in Scottsdale...

F-100 · « **Reply #1513 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 08:57 pm »

Quote from: highdfever on 19 Apr 2007, 01:37 am

Hi F-100,

I am using Odyssey Mono to drive my Dynaudio Contour 1.8. How do you compared Promitheus PVC to your previous preamp especially the Modwright and Odyssey?

Tks

TVC and Modwright both can deliver smooth, warm, sweet and clean sound. However, I prefer the TVC because it have the sound of tube but you don't have to deal with microphonic noise issues and buying expensive tubes. The price performance ratio is so exceptional that I don't think any preamp can compete at this price range. In matter of fact, I like the TVC so much that I currently have 3 of them in the house.

As for the Odyssey Candela, I have not yet listened to this preamp.

rollo · « **Reply #1514 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 09:22 pm »

F-100,

You da man, triplets! Did you name them? Your so right man, Enjoy

rollo

F-100 · « **Reply #1515 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 09:30 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 20 Apr 2007, 09:22 pm

F-100,

You da man, triplets! Did you name them? Your so right man, Enjoy

rollo

Not yet, Rollo... Perhaps I should name them as Larry, Curly & Mo..

rollo · « **Reply #1516 on:** 20 Apr 2007, 09:39 pm »

F-100,

You read my mind. Moe Larry and Curly it should be then. Nicholas your a grandpa! Salute!
It must be Friday the humor is back.

Have a great weekend.

rollo

pardales · « **Reply #1517 on:** 21 Apr 2007, 05:13 am »

Anyone have the Promitheus DAC yet?

Any Atlmann owners out there using a TVC?

It took a few hours but I slogged through most every page in this thread. Fun ride. Thanks, I think

GHM · « **Reply #1518 on:** 21 Apr 2007, 05:47 am »

Quote from: pardales on 21 Apr 2007, 05:13 am

Anyone have the Promitheus DAC yet?

Any Atlmann owners out there using a TVC?

It took a few hours but I slogged through most every page in this thread. Fun ride. Thanks, I think

Paul Bui uses the Altmann Dac with his Promitheus.

anubisgrau · « **Reply #1519 on:** 21 Apr 2007, 07:20 pm »

Quote from: GHM on 21 Apr 2007, 05:47 am

Quote from: pardales on 21 Apr 2007, 05:13 am
Anyone have the Promitheus DAC yet?

Any Atlmann owners out there using a TVC?

It took a few hours but I slogged through most every page in this thread. Fun ride. Thanks, I think

Paul Bui uses the Altmann Dac with his Promitheus.

Damn it! Paul, you are da man we are all waiting for. C'mon, sing!