Cables & interconnects

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Daygloworange

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Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #60 on: 10 Nov 2006, 09:00 pm »
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Perfect systems do not exist and never will but that shouldn't mean that engineers and audio designers should stop striving to achieve more and more accurate equipment. 

I agree wholeheartedly with this. There never was, or will be a superfluous system.

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Audio designers who choose to voice their components can have very pleasing sounding units but the goal is not 100% accuracy.

I'm not sure where the fix to that is. It makes it all very contentious. There is no benchmark to absolute sound . And leaves the door wide open to interpret what is good sound.That's what makes it all so debateable. I mean, would Audiocircle even exist?

Of course I realize that there is no perfect in audio reproduction. And like I said before, even if there was, as humans, we would find something else to debate over.

Cheers

TomW16

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #61 on: 10 Nov 2006, 09:52 pm »
Hi Daygloworange,

I agree that the debate will rage on for a long time since the ultimate sound is up to the individual's perception.  I am pleased that AVA equipment is designed to be, as much as possible, straight wire with gain AND sound good.  :lol:

Tom

Daygloworange

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Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #62 on: 10 Nov 2006, 10:03 pm »
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I am pleased that AVA equipment is designed to be, as much as possible, straight wire with gain AND sound good.

What kind of wire would that be??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers

TomW16

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #63 on: 10 Nov 2006, 10:30 pm »
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I am pleased that AVA equipment is designed to be, as much as possible, straight wire with gain AND sound good.

What kind of wire would that be??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers

Very funny!   :lol:

avahifi

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #64 on: 10 Nov 2006, 10:38 pm »
Very unfortunately, in our units, I must admit that the wires are not straight!   :oops:

The transformer windings are curled around many many times, the circuit board paths have to wander around missing parts and other obstacles, and even the point to point wiring can't be in a straight line much of the time.   :o

We regret this, but at least this explains why our equipment cannot behave like a straight wire with gain.  We do our best to be satisfied with a bent wire or two with gain.

Sorry about that.   :roll:

Frank Van Alstine

Daygloworange

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Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #65 on: 10 Nov 2006, 10:42 pm »

Very funny!   :lol:

I think I knocked that one out of the park! :rock:

Cheers

Wayner

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #66 on: 11 Nov 2006, 07:57 pm »
Ok, Ok. gooberdude's passion for Mr. Speltz's anti-wire or what ever it is, made me do some creating today. First the PLAST-I-BAND and now NO-NAME speaker wires. As you can see from the photo I have made some speaker wires. I took wire from an induction coil I had laying around. It is 16 ga. (1/16 for you math people) with enamel coating as you would expect. I only had to go about 5 feet each way so that is the length. I decided to twist the pair together with about a twist and a half per inch, being very careful not to cause an abrasion on the enamel. I then decided to stuff the wire into a clear plastic tube for protection of the enamel. I then assembled the wire onto dual banana plugs (highly recommended) and then fired up Frank's AVA 170ex amplifier.  Yes, it works. Is there a difference between this solid wire and my regular speaker wire....I can't really tell. Ask me tomorrow.



Sorry Frank. I blame it all on the goober.

Daygloworange

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Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #67 on: 11 Nov 2006, 08:27 pm »
Wayner,

Now that's grabbing the bull by the horns. I like that. :wink:

Yeah give us an update, but make sure you let them break in so nobody can debate that aspect. I'm curious.

Cheers

TheChairGuy

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #68 on: 11 Nov 2006, 08:56 pm »
That wire is purdy, Wayner  :wink:

I like the $9.88 Lowe's hospital grade (orange) outlets, too.

Jampot

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Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #69 on: 11 Nov 2006, 09:16 pm »
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I like the $9.88 Lowe's hospital grade (orange) outlets, too.

Ahh :o

Wayner's secret weapon, the orange outlets.

And he had us thinking it was all about his AT cartridge and magnet wire (with due kudos for the 'Plas-ti-lator' and 'Plast-ti-band' of course :icon_twisted:

You guys deserve a great big thank you for entertaining us while you educate us. I just wish I had clear tubing on my cat 5 speaker cables like these!

Heck TCG, it was just a few days ago you 'offered' to can this thread if Frank didn't like it and here he is giving away his secrets -
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Very unfortunately, in our units, I must admit that the wires are not straight!   We do our best to be satisfied with a bent wire or two....

Keep it up, all.

Jim

Wayner

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #70 on: 12 Nov 2006, 05:40 pm »
After my 5 1/2 hour listening session, with new tweaks on the old turntable, I have these comments about the solid core speaker wire.

First, out here in the prairie land of Minnesota, there isn't much to do other than try not to hit deer, pheasants and raccoons with the truck. So when a little fun project like the wire came along, down to the hardware store for some tubing. Yes, I had fun with it. Did it make the Van Alstine T8 and 170exr sound good...they always sound good. I have proved that current can travel down a solid conductor as well as a multi-stranded conductor, but I already knew that. I have switched back to my regular speaker wire and it is still that great AVA sound that I am fond of.

From a practical standpoint, the solid core wire concept has some issues with it. It must be shaped every inch of the way from amplifier to speaker. If the wire is not directly terminated to the speaker connections, a dual banana jack must be used as the wire acts like a spring and could easily pull out a single banana jack. I would also worry about unsheathed wire enamel getting nicked up with long term use(especially the positive side) and causing a short, although the enamel is fairly durable.

I have no easy way to do an AB comparison, but my ears tell me there is no suggested difference between the 2 different conductors. The non-standard one will cause some conversation with visiting friends, though.

I say if you like the solid core wire, like gooberdude, go for it. It certainly wont diminish the sound. I really enjoyed the music last night. I just can't claim a winner from one to the other for the time being.

W

boead

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #71 on: 13 Nov 2006, 03:46 am »
After my 5 1/2 hour listening session, with new tweaks on the old turntable, I have these comments about the solid core speaker wire.

First, out here in the prairie land of Minnesota, there isn't much to do other than try not to hit deer, pheasants and raccoons with the truck. So when a little fun project like the wire came along, down to the hardware store for some tubing. Yes, I had fun with it. Did it make the Van Alstine T8 and 170exr sound good...they always sound good. I have proved that current can travel down a solid conductor as well as a multi-stranded conductor, but I already knew that. I have switched back to my regular speaker wire and it is still that great AVA sound that I am fond of.

From a practical standpoint, the solid core wire concept has some issues with it. It must be shaped every inch of the way from amplifier to speaker. If the wire is not directly terminated to the speaker connections, a dual banana jack must be used as the wire acts like a spring and could easily pull out a single banana jack. I would also worry about unsheathed wire enamel getting nicked up with long term use(especially the positive side) and causing a short, although the enamel is fairly durable.

I have no easy way to do an AB comparison, but my ears tell me there is no suggested difference between the 2 different conductors. The non-standard one will cause some conversation with visiting friends, though.

I say if you like the solid core wire, like gooberdude, go for it. It certainly wont diminish the sound. I really enjoyed the music last night. I just can't claim a winner from one to the other for the time being.

W

Well there you have it friends!

Speaker wire, lamp cord, wire coat hangers – its all the same shite!

Thanks Wayner for finally getting to the bottom of this for us. Now we can all sleep more soundly.


Daygloworange

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Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #72 on: 13 Nov 2006, 04:01 am »
Just for the sake of argument. Put your DIY solid wire back, and leave it there for a week, or a month of regular listening. Then switch them. Better yet have someone switch them and not tell you.

Just in case.

Sorry, I just like playing Devil's advocate...

Cheers

Wayner

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #73 on: 13 Nov 2006, 12:56 pm »
Dear boead,

Your slip is showing.

gooberdude

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #74 on: 13 Nov 2006, 03:55 pm »
Hey Wayner,


definitely try removing those big, clunky banana clips & try the connections with bare wire...

Speltzians have written quite a bit in forums about keeping nothing between you and the music...


also, did you listen for direction?     :lol: :lol: :lol:


GD

weirdo

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #75 on: 13 Nov 2006, 08:39 pm »
Guys - please look a where you are posting all of this stuff on cables.

It's in the Audio by van Alstine forum :duh:  Frank has made his thoughts abundantly clear on cables and the like for decades, and he's entitled to his fully formed and informed opinions.

John / TCG (Global Moderator)

Don't discipline the kids;  The truth is, It doesen't matter. AVA stereo gear and expensive cables never saved anybody's life so in that respect they are both extravagances. Franks reputation is intact
ragardless of the posts. 

Airheads4Ever

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Re: Cables & interconnects ... and knobs?
« Reply #76 on: 14 Nov 2006, 12:13 am »
Now that the cabling issues are resolved, perhaps it's time to address the completely overlooked upgrade, knobs.

Volume knobs, that is.

Only $485 each from the Mods specialists at http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C



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The new knobs are custom made with beech wood and bronze ... The beech wood is coated several times with C37 lacquer for best sound ... The sound becomes much more open and free flowing with a nice improvement in resolution. Dynamics are better and overall naturalness is improved ... You will be shocked by this!

  :o :duh:

-MK

miklorsmith

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #77 on: 14 Nov 2006, 12:23 am »
Ha Ha, Machina Dynamica got scooped!

Daygloworange

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Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #78 on: 14 Nov 2006, 01:31 am »
Actually, C 30 lacquers were tested on drum shells, and the findings were that the unique cross-linking of the carbon compounds were in an alternating figure 8 pattern due to the micro crystallization of cellulose strands that were not present in later C 37 formulations...................ha,ha....just kidding :lol: :lol: :lol:

That description of those knobs is funny. Are there any shopping channel junkies out there who are also audiophiles? C'mon, there's gotta be! :o

Cheers


warnerwh

Re: Cables & interconnects
« Reply #79 on: 14 Nov 2006, 04:01 am »
I'd be shocked to if I paid 485 bucks for a wood knob like that :duh:  You could have the nicest knobs anybody could imagine fabricated any way you like them for less than that.  I suspect they don't sell very many but even a couple of knobs a year would help as the profit margin is no doubt huge.