Recomend a new Sub

Antman27 · « **on:** 6 Sep 2006, 05:57 pm »

Hello I am looking for a new sub my room is 14 wide by 25 long but the throw is the 14 Ft so I sit about 10 ft from the sub.Half of the room is a diningroom
I would like to stay with a small footprint about the size I have now give or take an inch or two My sub is 14 tall by 10 wide and 14 deep (paradigm PDR8)
any thoughts if the Velodyne SPL-800R will be good for my room size ?I like that its small and cherry .
Pix of room
Thanks ~
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=795&pos=5

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=795&pos=8

Andrew JC · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 07:43 pm »

Antman27- I own the SPL800II and it is a great sub. I live in a condo, so out of respect of my neighbors I am limited to how loud I use it. Well most of the time : ) My room size is similar to yours and I have never felt like it has run out of headroom. It can put out an ample amount of bass but most important to me is that it puts out quality bass. What I mean but that is the bass is tight and tuneful. It is excels with music and more than adequate with movies. My wife who two floors up can feel the bass when I’m in the basement watching movies.

All that being said this sub would not satisfy the SVS or Sonotube crowd. For your application the Velodyne is an excellent choice if your budget allows it. For less money the other choices would be something from HSU or X-sub from AV123.

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Sep 2006, 08:19 pm »

They look like very nice subs -- sealed enclosures, PEQ, remote.

Using the recommendations from the Velodyne web site, the SPL-1000R would be the smallest for your room (3000 cu. ft.).

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/wproduct/whproduct_new.aspx?sid=797d562h

Unfortunately, for a given SPL, the smaller the sub the greater distortion it will produce. I think the SPL-1000R uses an 8" driver, so their recommendation is probably a little optimistic.

Antman27 · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 03:20 am »

The Vello SPL-800R may be a tad small for my room but I think it would be a major improvement over my Paradigm PDR8 NO ?

Andrew JC · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 01:16 pm »

I have listened to Paradigm subs in the past and they are quite good. I know the Velodyne would of course be better in every way but it is substantially more money as well. Are you getting the sub from a local dealer or buying online? The SPL 1000 is a 10" driver and the 1200 is a 12" driver.

Carlman · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 01:37 pm »

You're going to need to experiment to find what you like... Some subs are airy or 'breathy' some are punchy, others are 'fat'... just depends on setup, room, amp, and other things.

The best 2 I've heard are a huge Revel sub (can't remember which one) but it was pretty pricey.. and a Piega P1. The Piega had a super nice richness but with a good punch also. I couldn't tell where it was coming from at all... just a great sub. I have been considering buying one to match with my speakers but don't really need it.... but it's so good I just want it in my house.

I have a JM Labs sub that's pretty nice also. It's from the 'Chorus' line... great bargain used but not in the same league as the Piega or the Revel.

-C

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 04:53 pm »

Quote from: Andrew JC on 7 Sep 2006, 01:16 pm

I have listened to Paradigm subs in the past and they are quite good. I know the Velodyne would of course be better in every way but it is substantially more money as well. Are you getting the sub from a local dealer or buying online? The SPL 1000 is a 10" driver and the 1200 is a 12" driver.

Paradigm does make good subs and they would be my first suggestion for use with Paradigm monitors.

I have no idea, in general, whether Velodyne is particularly better than Paradigm in any way, but the SPL series has a lot going for it and appears to be a good value. I believe the SPL model numbers might be misleading regarding the size of the drivers used, unless it is customary to include the surround. The manual for the SPL series gives more detail on the driver's size. They also give a distortion spec, which I assume to be a maximum over some unspecified frequency band.

The difference in enclosure size and cost does not seem that great to me (when viewed as a long-term investment), so I would opt for the larger model.

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 07:11 pm »

Quote from: Antman27 on 7 Sep 2006, 03:20 am

The Vello SPL-800R may be a tad small for my room but I think it would be a major improvement over my Paradigm PDR8 NO ?

Going down to 2000 cu. ft., the SPL-800R showed up on the Velodyne recommendations. 1000 cu. ft. difference may be more than a tad.

In a 1500 cu.ft. room, I'm sure the SPL-800R would be a nice improvement over your PDR-8. In a 3000 cu.ft. room, I'm not sure it'll be obvious. The additional cost of the SPL-800R is partly going into the electronics.

Antman27 · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 07:25 pm »

Quote

Paradigm does make good subs and they would be my first suggestion for use with Paradigm monitors.

My main speakers are Paradigm Reference Studio 40's
I do not think the PDR is one of the better Paradigm products
Paradigm does not make a small footprint sub in Cherry -If I could get past the cherry wood I could look into there Ultracube or the Semisonic 10

Andrew JC · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 07:37 pm »

If you have specific questions for the Velodyne sub you could ask here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=304306

MaxCast · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 07:40 pm »

Hard to beat that eq. I wish receivers with auto eq would cover those ranges.

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 07:41 pm »

Quote from: Antman27 on 7 Sep 2006, 07:25 pm

Quote
Paradigm does make good subs and they would be my first suggestion for use with Paradigm monitors.
My main speakers are Paradigm Reference Studio 40's
I do not think the PDR is one of the better Paradigm products
Paradigm does not make a small footprint sub in Cherry -If I could get past the cherry wood I could look into there Ultracube or the Semisonic 10

I agree with you completely that the PDR-8 is not in the same class as your monitors. The Reference Seismic 10 would be a great match for your monitors and your room. Too bad it doesn't come in Cherry.

Antman27 · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 07:57 pm »

Now I have the answers

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260009438091&category=3202

LOL

Andrew JC · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 08:00 pm »

Or this http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=261-614

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 08:09 pm »

Nice review of the Paradigm Seismic 12. They use an M&K reference system, so the results are especially meaningful.

http://www.laaudiofile.com/seismic12.html

Antman27 · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 08:21 pm »

A bit off of the topic but how do front firing VS down firing differ ?
My room is thick carpet /padding on a concrete slab .

bgewaudio · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 08:45 pm »

Quote

A bit off of the topic but how do front firing VS down firing differ ?
My room is thick carpet /padding on a concrete slab .

If you plan to set the subs crossover point at a higher frequency say above 100Hz, I would recommend going with front firing. Depending on the thickness of the carpet and/or any padding underneath, the carpet and the padding are going to act as an absorber the higher you move up the frequency spectrum, and given your posts earlier about trying to increase LF response in your current room this will affect the upper bass output. However, given there is concrete under the carpet and padding, is will increase the output at the lower frequencies, because the concrete will reflect any bass that passes through. In addition is you have kids, the down firing sub will be less prone to damages (i.e kicked or punctured).

Other than this there are no major differences between the two.

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Sep 2006, 09:56 pm »

Quote from: Antman27 on 7 Sep 2006, 08:21 pm

A bit off of the topic but how do front firing VS down firing differ ?
My room is thick carpet /padding on a concrete slab .

According to M&K's rationale for their "Backfire" design -- "For the most accurate room loading of low frequency signals, the sub is placed with the sound exiting the cabinet and loading into a wall. So all you see from the "front" view of the cabinet is a clean, smooth line."

So for a forward firing sub, you'd place the driver a couple of inches from a wall. But, that exposes the amp/control panel and so no one does that. I'm guessing the downward firing sub gives you the benefit and allows hiding the control panel. I'm also guessing that there are other trade-offs involved. Vandersteen uses downward firing drivers.

Antman27 · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Sep 2006, 07:25 pm »

Humm Paradigm subs list price
UltraCube 10 $799 10" High Powered Subwoofer
Seismic 10 $1400 10" Powered Subwoofer
Will the ultra cube work in my room or is it undersized it is a $600 savings
I like the looks of the Velodyne SPL-800R sells for $999 and the SPL-1000R $1300
Are there any other subs I could look into with a small footprint AND Cherry in the $600-$1000 price range that will be sutable for my room ?

hometheaterdoc · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Sep 2006, 07:52 pm »

Is this for mainly music or for home theater? Can you DIY? Can you use a screwdriver and bolt a couple things together if you are given a kit? Do you know someone locally with any kind of woodworking skills that can build you a box?

How much is size an issue? There is no replacement for displacement. Once you experience what a decent driver in a reasonable sized box can do, an 8 inch driver just isn't going to cut it anymore.....

There are a ton of sub designs out there. Subwoofers, unlike main loudspeakers, are a little bit easier to design and build. So there are a multitude of great ideas and designs out there that can easily be built by a handy DIYer that will outperform a lot of similarly priced commercial offerings.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=209 is a listing for some kits for home theater subs. They're bigger boxes than you want..... but that 15" MKIII kit will more than fill your room and go reasonably low.... and the parametric EQ comes in handy....

If you have to stay small, take a look at some of the offerings from Pinnacle speakers:

http://www.pinnaclespeakers.com/subwoofers.html

they are usually deeply discounted from MSRP and the subs are actually not half bad....