Educate me on Tuners

Mathew_M · « **on:** 16 Jun 2003, 04:01 am »

I'm interested in a Sansui or other analog tuner that has rca outs with good sound in the $30 - $50 range. Limited I know but it's mainly for late night listening.

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 05:26 am »

To get educated on tuners, go here.

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/

Then keep an eye on ebay.
I recently purchased a Sansui TU 7700 on ebay Australia (I live in Sydney).
I am very pleased with the sound.

doug s. · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 04:20 pm »

matt, the fmtunerinfo site is an excellent place, imo. as well as its yahoo tuner forum. if you have access to a quality (meaning non-commercial) broadcast, i strongly urge ya to upgrade yer budget to ~$200. at this price, you will get sound quality that rivals good analog & digital sources, provided you have a good broadcast signal. if anyone tells ya different, they haven't heard it - it's that simple!

doug s.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 05:57 pm »

I haven't really paid a whole lot of attention to the radio until recently I've been listening to a late night show called Echos that plays a nice blend of New Agey, classical, jazz and alternative stuff.

I was wondering what the big difference between the $30 and the $500 Sansui's are besides more dials.

doug s. · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 06:14 pm »

what ya pay for w/better sansui's, is better sensitivity (ability to get stations far away), better selectivity (ability to get low-power stations that are adjacent to strong stations), and better sonics. like real soundstage, extended bass/treble, etc... re: $500 sansui's, only the tu-9900 fits that category (mebbe the tu-919 is catching up?); most are still under $300, w/exception of the tu-x1, which is >$1k... if ya like the sansui look, i'd suggest a tu-517; then have it upgraded by ed hanlon
http://antennaperformance.com/
or bill ammons, who can be found at tunerinfo.com. but, the sansui's aren't the only ones that will sound as good as a $6k m-d tuna - there are a myriad of other vintage tuna's, from pioneer, kenwood, luxman, even mitsubishi. ed hanlon happens to be wild about the kenwood kt-8300/kt-9900. and, i will put my stephen sank modded harmon-kardon citation 18 up against anyting for sonics!

regards,

doug s., why not go upscale & buy my completely overhauled/aligned tandberg 3001a, for $995?

BWentler · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 06:28 pm »

Quote from: doug s.

what ya pay for w/better sansui's, is better sensitivity (ability to get stations far away), better selectivity (ability to get low-power stations that are adjacent to strong stations), and better sonics. like real soundstage, extended bass/treble, etc... re: $500 sansui's, only the tu-9900 fits that category (mebbe the tu-919 is catching up?); most are still under $300, w/exception of the tu-x1, which is >$1k... if ya like the sansui look, i'd suggest a tu-517; then have it upgraded by ed hanlon
ht ...

I can reply from experience of Ed Hanlon craftsmanship! The first turner that I sent to him was my old Proton 440 that he transformed into a giant killer then I ordered a fully modified Kenwood 600T directly from him. He does a great job and the cost is not that bad when you look at the amount of time both he & his tech into each turner!

I'd say, email him and then send it into him!

OBF · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 06:38 pm »

Do you guys think a Van Alstine modded Dynaco, such as the one listed on ebay, would be a good tuner?

3moons · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 06:41 pm »

Now Doug, Don't forget how great an inexpensive Kenwood KT-7500 sounds after applying all my mods. jim...

doug s. · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 07:07 pm »

jim, i'll have to take yer word for it - ya never wanted to trade one for my stock kt-9900!

and, i'm still waiting for your comparison of the modded kt-7500 to the modded kt-8300, & to the stock sansui tu-x1...

and, correct me if i'm wrong, but yure not modding these commercially, any more? of course, anyone can follow yer instructions on the fmtunerinfo site & diy, if they so desire.

regards,

doug s.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 09:35 pm »

My experience with kenwood tuners is limited to a POS that was included with my first (and last might I say) Home Theater receiver. The tuner on that thing sucked so bad and it was digital.

I have to say that I love the looks of the old analog tuners but what advantages do they offer me over the newer digital ones? I ask this because I see the Sansui digital 'tunas' go for next to nothing on Ebay.

jackman · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Jun 2003, 10:26 pm »

OBF,
I have a modded Philips from Van Alstine and like it a lot. In my experience, everthing Frank mods or makes sounds very good. Haven't tried it up against high $$$ stuff from Mac or Sansui but it sounds good enough for me and picks up stations very well. I believe iFrank speaks highly of the Dynaco mods and has additional mods that can take it to another level. You may want to ask him.

J

OBF · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Jun 2003, 12:36 am »

Thanks Jackman. That particular ebay VA mod tuner closes about 45 minutes from now, and I wish I knew enough about vintage tuners to know if $102+ (current price) is a good deal or not, but I'll keep an eye out for any of Frank's mods in the future.

doug s. · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Jun 2003, 11:46 pm »

i've never heard a dyna tuna, but i understand they *do* sound nice, especially when modded. i'd be surprised if any mac tuna, w/exception of the mr71, would be a clear sonic improvement over a modded dyna. macs, tho definitely ok-sounding, are more known for reception capabilities than outright sonic splendor. the mr71 is sposed to be a killer tuna for sonics, when modded, but this is now quite a hi-dollar proposition.

for dyna info, check out the links here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FMtuners/links/Tube_Tuner_Sites_001006207112/Dynaco_FM3_Sites_001018890428/

doug s.

doug s. · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Jun 2003, 11:55 pm »

matt, check the fmtunerinfo.com site for the skinny on sansui. some digital tuna can be quite outstanding performance-wise, but most all the top tunas are analog. afaik, for vintage stuff, technics & luxman have a couple decent sounding digital tunas... and, there's a nikko that's also supposed to be wery nice. the technics st-9038 is a digital wersion of the highly-regarded st-9030, & these are usually ~$100... the st9030's can be ~$300..

i owned a technics st-9600 which is quite an impressive-looking beast - it actually sounded good enuff so i toyed w/selling my revox b261. but someone made me an offer i couldn't refuse!

anyway, the 9030/9038's, while not as impressive looking, are supposed to be much better fm tunas, both sound-wise & reception-wise.

doug s.

warnerwh · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 12:43 am »

Matthew: the old analog tuners are far superior to the tuners in modern receivers. It's not even comparable. With a good quality broadcast it rivals cd quality. There are also some very good digital tuners but the new ones cost way too much. You can get an old Onkyo, Denon or Yamaha for less than 150 bucks, possibly much less, that will amaze you with quality. They will easily outperform many tuners costing several hundred dollars that are new. I just picked up an Onkyo T 4087 for 61 bucks that I'd put head to head with most of the modern digital tuners at any price. There's some better but it sure would make a good showing and put to shame many that are several hundred dollars. Please don't go by what you heard from a modern receiver tuner section, there's probably some decent ones but most are not as good as a cheap 70's model, this is NOT an exageration. Kenwood made some great tuners as did most of the japanese companies. Quality went down the tubes in the early 80's. (if someone can explain why I'd like to know.)

doug s. · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 03:31 am »

"Quality went down the tubes in the early 80's. (if someone can explain why I'd like to know.)"
========================
cost, plain & simple. the only half decent tuna presently made (that i know about) costs ~$6k. the tandberg 3001a, another fine tuna of the past, retailed at $2200 a long time ago; tandberg raised its price to $4k yust before they stopped making it - too expensive for them to keep losing money at *only* $2200, and little market ten years ago (and today) for $4k tunas...

to make a quality analog tuna today, like the classic old japanese tunas, would cost a fortune, & there's little market, what w/digital radio, & most commercial fm now playing the same compressed crap coast-to-coast.

i am still into it as i am fortunate to receive a few non-commercial stations that play music i like, w/great signal quality. the sound i get *does* in fact rival the quality of my analog & digital set-ups.

doug s.

randog · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Jun 2003, 11:20 pm »

Quote from: doug s.

what ya pay for w/better sansui's, is better sensitivity (ability to get stations far away), better selectivity (ability to get low-power stations that are adjacent to strong stations), and better sonics. like real soundstage, extended bass/treble, etc... re: $500 sansui's, only the tu-9900 fits that category (mebbe the tu-919 is catching up?); most are still under $300, w/exception of the tu-x1, which is >$1k... if ya like the sansui look, i'd suggest a tu-517; then have it upgraded by ed hanlon
ht ...

Sorry I'm getting in on this late... butt hay!

I've decided to look for a nice used Sansui. Doug, why might you suggest the TU-517 over say the TU-717? Is it because they would both be basically the same after mods and the 517 would be cheaper upfront? The 717's seem to be more abundant on eBay...

Can you describe the mods in layman's terms? Do you know what Ed typically charges for mods? Curious because the modded tuners he sells on his website are just this side of outrageous in price

I'm assuming a 717 would be a better tuner than the 517 outta the box, eh?

I love old Marantz gear (got a 2285B) and McIntosh and I'd love to have an old Mac tuner, but if the fmtuner site is pretty accurate about the really good stuff then I'll lean that way since I live on a hill and have the benefit of pulling in stations from all of Northern CA if I do it right (money *is* an object for me as well which is why I won't have an MR-78 anytime soon). A handful of great non-commercial stations are within range, but at every which direction within around a 180 degree sweep. For antenna.. I'm thinking maybe a rooftop with rotary...

Randog

doug s. · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Jun 2003, 03:03 am »

randog, the 517 is the same tuna as the 717, except for one useless feature, which i forget what it is... ask ed, or ask at the yahoo tuna mod site.

as far as ed's prices, $200-$300 for mods & a complete alignment seems quite fair to me... also, prices are similar for other folk, like stephen sank and bill ammons. ed hanlon's prices on awreddy-done-up stuff generally reflect the going ebay rate for the tuna itself.

the mods generally consist of filter replacement, upgrade of diodes & capacitors, etc. also, disconnecting the 300 ohm antenna hook-up & using only the 75 ohm, makes for better sensitivity... again, ask ed, or the yahoo tuna site. or, read about the mods done to the kenwood kt-7500 on fmtunerinfo.com

the more ya read about folks' experiences w/tuna, the less you'll want a mr78, so relax about that. a modded mr71 may be a different story, tho...

ya definitely need a good antenna on a rotor; spring for an aps-13, or get a winegard hd6065 if the funds are tight. i have had both, & performance on the winegard is close enuff to the aps-13 to make it a steal, imo...

hth,

doug s.

Val · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jun 2003, 11:43 am »

I can only read with despair and nostalgia this great thread about vintage analog tuners. The last classical FM station in this cultural wasteland of Miami, 93.1, also of superb broadcast quality, is long gone.

randog · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jun 2003, 03:05 pm »

Wasn't trying to dis Ed, fer sure. I just see that the modded units are like $700 for a TU-719 and $1100 for a TU-919. I'm still green, but that seems like a lot... at least too much for me right now. Dial me silly, but even if these tuners are better than an MR-78, if I get into that territory price-wise I still get swooned by the Mac nostalgia... sorta like that old iron you see to the left, there. They may not be the best at anything but they're built like tanks, last forever, hold their value and best of all, when everything is dialed - there's a harmony that takes place between man and machine that makes it just right.

Of course, none of that matters if you settle back for a little OTA listening session and get tuned out in short order.

Despite my comments above (obviously the ramblings of a green tunabee), I am open minded to suggestions and advice and appreciate your time and comments. I don't have the desire to own a handful of tuners so I'd like to get something I'll be happy with and auditioning classic tuners doesn't seem too feasible. Gotta love that internet for a little long-distance education!

fmtunerinfo.com is a cool site indeed.

Having said that, do you think there might be a little subconscious anti-bias at fmtunerinfo against the 2 more common names that spring to the front when classic audio is discussed in general circles? I mean, these brands are known for their innovation and paving the industry in their day... can they really be that 'bad' (at the bottom of the charts!)? I'm thinking yes and no, grain of salt, and all that... (would really like to hear thoughts on that)

Randog

BTW, what is DXing???
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