Mini monitor recommendations

randog · « **Reply #60 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 03:23 pm »

Quote from: JohnR

Quote from: randog
... without any help from thread police wannabees.

This kind of comment really pisses me off. Everybody's an expert, as long as you don't have to do shit to prove it. The lesson I'm learning here is don't even bother asking people what they think, or they'll come up with this kind of smug bullshit. Am I reading that right?

We'll make a decision based on the votes and discussion in the other thread. Thanks.

JohnR

Nope. I don't think you're reading that right at all. What is it about that comment that bothers you so much? Do you really feel people should always feel the need to sleep on something before they post it so they don't have to worry about being attacked? Should I have slept on that comment so that I didn't have to get verbally spanked? Do you now get my point?

The more rules you make and enforce, the less people will make time to play. Oh sure, the regulars will always be here to pump each other up, but the new players, lurkers, and even the manufacturers will fade off into the sunset if they find their blue-moon post goes ignored or attacked. Before ya know it, you've created your own little private club. That's just my observation from contributing to and moderating a few forums over the years.

I'm guessing many of the manufacturers here are not internet junkies and they maintain a presence here because they realize it is good business. They may not be aware of all the nuances of proper internet protocol. The same can be said of many-a average Joe who stumbles in. That doesn't mean they don't have a whole-lotta good shit to offer. All I'm saying is give peace a chance before you feel the need to beat your chest.

Now, I'm sorry if any of that 'pisses you off'... it's not intended to and I'm more than willing to be set straight on something if I'm off-base... but I don't feel like sleeping on this post either.

Randog

jackman · « **Reply #61 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 03:27 pm »

Quote

Nope. I don't think you're reading that right at all. What is it about that comment bothers you so much? Do you really feel people should always feel the need to sleep on something before they post it so they don't have to worry about being attacked? Should I have slept on that comment so that I didn't have to get verbally spanked? Do you now get my point?

The more rules you make and enforce, the less people will make time to play. Oh sure, the regulars will always be here to pump each other up, but the new players, lurkers, and even the manufacturers will fade off into the sunset if they find their blue-moon post goes ignored or attacked. Before ya know it, you've created your own little private club. That's just my observation from contributing to and moderating a few forums over the years.

I'm guessing many of the manufacturers here are not internet junkies and they maintain a presence here because they realize it is good business. They may not be aware of all the nuances of proper internet protocol. The same can be said of many-a average Joe who stumbles in. That doesn't mean they don't have a whole-lotta good shit to offer. All I'm saying is give peace a chance before you feel the need to beat your chest.

Now, I'm sorry if any of that 'pisses you off'... it's not intended to and I'm more than willing to be set straight on something if I'm off-base... but I don't feel like sleeping on this post either.

Very nicely stated

jackman · « **Reply #62 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 03:28 pm »

double post

.

JohnR · « **Reply #63 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 03:28 pm »

O - t - h - e - r .... t - h - r - e - a - d ......

cyounkman · « **Reply #64 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 03:36 pm »

Here's a link. Click here to go to the other thread.

randog · « **Reply #65 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 04:06 pm »

Quote from: JohnR

O - t - h - e - r .... t - h - r - e - a - d ......

MY BAD!

Randog

(let me know on the other thread if you wish to discuss my comments...)

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #66 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 06:52 pm »

The subject is Mini-Monitor recommendations - right ?

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #67 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 07:02 pm »

Fight Club or Debate Club is where this conversation is heading.

Any more monitor comments to keep on topic?.........

cyounkman · « **Reply #68 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 07:42 pm »

It occurs to me now that the (don't laugh) PSB Stratus Mini is quite a decent little speaker, and you should be able to pick it up used now for a reasonable price. It is power hungry, so match amps carefully. SETs and low-powered rifraff need not apply.

thepogue · « **Reply #69 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 09:05 pm »

they can compete very well at each price point I'd say (although I've not heard all their offerings)

Pogue

ehider · « **Reply #70 on:** 21 Jun 2003, 07:34 am »

Hey everybody! I think we've digressed to the point that no one realizes what started the core arguments about Frank's "recomendation", and what was the worst rule that he broke as a manufacturer on these forums (this is my opinion of course):

In a nutshell, Frank recommended a monitor speaker but FAILED to mention that HE profits from the sale of it! If you go back and read his original "recommendation", it reads as if he discovered a great speaker (from another company altogether), and wanted others to know about his discovery! Sort of a "Hey, we've discovered this great monitor, you guys should check it out....and by the way, go read the reviews here, I think you'll be impressed..."NO WHERE DID HE MENTION THAT HE WOULD PROFIT FROM THE SALE OF THIS SPEAKER!

If Frank had been "frank" and made it VERY CLEAR that his company profits from his recommendation, his whole "recomendation" would be a bit less deceptive IMHO. The way Frank put forth his inital thread was NO different than a shady salesman would use to tout his own product in a "slight of hand" way i.e. SNEAKY!!!!

Perhaps Frank just forgot to be "frank" about this speaker and the profits going to his company. IMHO all manufacturers on this forum should ALWAYS have to mention if they make profits from products they recommend, ESPECIALLY when their recomendation has a DIFFERENT name than their core product line. How can you argue with that rule??

theborg · « **Reply #71 on:** 21 Jun 2003, 08:03 am »

Um, yeah OK, well I don't think it was intentionally deceptive since after all he did say "our whatsit loudspeaker"... Anyway you're a bit late to the party, there's a new FAQ on the way, and by the way did anyone mention anything about the http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=3119">o - t - h - e - r -- t - h - r - e - a - d which would of course would a very good place for all further discussion of this issue?

avahifi · « **Reply #72 on:** 21 Jun 2003, 01:18 pm »

[ehider wrote

In a nutshell, Frank recommended a monitor speaker but FAILED to mention that HE profits from the sale of it! If you go back and read his original "recommendation", it reads as if he discovered a great speaker (from another company altogether), and wanted others to know about his discovery! Sort of a "Hey, we've discovered this great monitor, you guys should check it out....and by the way, go read the reviews here, I think you'll be impressed..."NO WHERE DID HE MENTION THAT HE WOULD PROFIT FROM THE SALE OF THIS SPEAKER! ]

Gee folks, I thought that saying "our Biro L/1s" was clear enough that is a product we offer for sale. Actually, the speakers were designed, built, and marketed by Mithat Konar, a good friend and now my chief engineer, presently teaching college in Turkey. We took over the production for him as he cannot do it from Turkey. No intent to deceive anyone about the product. Some here should mellow out a bit.

Frank Van Alstine

Woodsea · « **Reply #73 on:** 21 Jun 2003, 01:31 pm »

Hmmm, well Frank, I thought you were damn clear as well. But that must be the problem with our English

It can be confusing, Like the lamb was on the lam from our flock at the dawn hour

jackman · « **Reply #74 on:** 21 Jun 2003, 02:19 pm »

Quote

In a nutshell, Frank recommended a monitor speaker but FAILED to mention that HE profits from the sale of it! If you go back and read his original "recommendation", it reads as if he discovered a great speaker (from another company altogether), and wanted others to know about his discovery! Sort of a "Hey, we've discovered this great monitor, you guys should check it out....and by the way, go read the reviews here, I think you'll be impressed..."NO WHERE DID HE MENTION THAT HE WOULD PROFIT FROM THE SALE OF THIS SPEAKER!

If Frank had been "frank" and made it VERY CLEAR that his company profits from his recommendation, his whole "recomendation" would be a bit less deceptive IMHO. The way Frank put forth his inital thread was NO different than a shady salesman would use to tout his own product in a "slight of hand" way i.e. SNEAKY!!!!

Perhaps Frank just forgot to be "frank" about this speaker and the profits going to his company. IMHO all manufacturers on this forum should ALWAYS have to mention if they make profits from products they recommend, ESPECIALLY when their recomendation has a DIFFERENT name than their core product line. How can you argue with that rule??

Eric,
This is perhaps the dumbest thing you have ever said in your life. Having followed your previous posts, I have always considered you an intelligent person. Hopefully, someone got a hold of your password and is posting under your name. I can't believe you would actually think something like this.

J

PS - Borg, I know...other forum.

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #75 on:** 21 Jun 2003, 03:27 pm »

Can't all you guys take this to debate club or fight club?....

Here....I got the ball rolling for you guys.

Post here[/b]:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=3211.msg26569#26569

ehider · « **Reply #76 on:** 21 Jun 2003, 08:14 pm »

Jackman,

GEEEZ!! Lighten up a little bit guy. I was just being VERY direct and clear about how I FEEL a manufacturer needs to be EXTREMELY RESPONSIBLE for recommendations and that they should CAREFULLY SPELL out their involvement with that particular product recommendation (this is my opinion of course).

Jackman - obviously you read Frank's initial posting VERY carefully and came to the conclusion that he was clear about the " our Biro" speakers being in his product line up. BUT GUESS WHAT??? Another one of my other audiophile buddies did not! He asked me about the monitors that Frank had "discovered". I then immediately went to Frank's initial posting and read it quickly and also came to the SAME conclusion - Frank was recommending a speaker which he discovered (not represented). This led to two different individuals (myself and another audiophile) thinking that Frank, a very well respected audiophile manufacturer, uses these Biro speakers that he discovered which readily allow him to hear the differences in his equipment!

It was only AFTER I looked further into the "Biro" line that I actually realized that Frank actually profits from his recommendation. At this point I do realize that Frank's one word "our" could be construed as "his line of speakers". Then again, two different persons came to the initial conclusion that his word "our" just meant: "we own and use these monitor speakers". (Hell, I'm willing to bet that there are quite a few audiophiles who didn't even know that Frank represented a speaker line).

Not everyone reads the postings here so carefully. Additionally, little qualifier words (such as "our) can actually have many different meanings in the same type of sentences. For example; If I was to say: "our car is great, we use it to evaluate different high performance tires, check out the great reviews on this car..." . Would anybody really think that I profit from the sale of "our cars" OR perhaps might some readers think my statement "our car" was nothing more than a recommendation to others about a great car to consider purchasing because we are glad that we discovered it

SOOOOO, to CAREFULLY re-iterate the core intentions of my original posting: I personally feel that ANY manufacturer which will profit from a recommendation should be VERY CLEAR AND SPELL IT OUT IN AT LEAST A SENTENCE OR TWO their relationship with any product that they recommend.

To others reading this thread: I SERIOUSLY apologize for being part of this ongoing argument

. Unfortunately I do feel the need to address Jackman's clear and uncalled for attack on my character. I promise not to continue to propenciate these sort of discussions on this thread since we are supposed to be talking about monitor recommendations, right?

Now to lighten up a bit:

jackman · « **Reply #77 on:** 22 Jun 2003, 03:18 pm »

Quote

For all the kind comments our electronics get, I wonder why nobody has mentioned our Biro L/1 loudspeakers ($1595 a pair, black or natural oak)? Go to www.audioreview.com and search for Biro and look at all the rave reviews. They are what we are listening to when evaluating amp and preamp designs, and we certainly have not found their limits yet.

Eric,
Please read this post and then go directly to your "conclusion". What about "our Biro L/1 loudspeakers" do you not understand? Your friends who misunderstood this message may be in need of some remedial reading help, but you seemed like an intelligent guy. Were they also confused when Frank said "our electronics"? He didn't mention that he profits from his electronics. Was this misleading or confusing to you and your (seemingly) illiterate friends? Did your friends think he was talking about some electronics he has stored in his basement??? I read the post carefully and he never mentions whose electronics he is taling about. Also, I checked Franks site and he never mentions that he profits from the sale of electronic equipment. I hope you don't find this to be confusing and deceptive also...

I'm also surprised that no one was "confused" about the link that Frank gave to the Audioreview site which gives NO reviews of the speakers he is recommending...at least none that I could find. This was VERY confusing and hopefully did not cause additional problems for anyone who is easily confused.

This whole mess has gotten way more press than it deserves. My whole point in originally posting was to point out a double standard that exists on this site. When distributors like Bioforce and the other VMPS distributor bust in to every speaker discussion thread (on this site and the entire internet from what I can tell) no one accuses them of breaking the sacred "rules". Frank posted that he is surprised no one on this site mentions HIS speakers and you feel this is deceptive because you have reading impaired friends who may be confused by this type of language? I think it's a total joke. Your earlier diatribe was totally unwarranted, I think I liked you better when you were Peter (from AR's) apologist.

Jackman

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #78 on:** 22 Jun 2003, 09:21 pm »

Back to mini-monitors, I have a news flash!!!

Dan Wright has been offered that his modifications to the Swans M1 mini-monitor (of which I own a pair) will not void the manufacturer's warranty. If Dan so chooses, he will be able to sell them directly from the importer to his customers. This is in the negotiating phase, but I've been given authorization to tell the *educated* general public about this development.

The Modwright Swans M1 is an outstanding speaker. I'm keeping mine for a long long time...

avahifi · « **Reply #79 on:** 22 Jun 2003, 10:53 pm »

Search www.audioreview.com for Biro, not Van Alstine, the speakers are mis-listed. Frank Van Alstine