Mini monitor recommendations

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thp

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Mini monitor recommendations
« on: 15 Jun 2003, 08:55 pm »
Help with mini monitor choices please.

Something small, like 12" high would be nice...  I'm going to be moving a lot so I'm going to be making a small system.

Listen to classical/rock/jazz/blues.

$1000 range would be nice...  $1500 max if it's really worth it.

Current speaker I'm looking at is the ProAc 1 SC.

Thanks.

Woodsea

Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #1 on: 15 Jun 2003, 09:34 pm »
I think the AcendsAcoustics cbm-170's are worth a listen.  They are very inexpensive, and there is a 30 day trial.  Check out them out at http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_125308_1594crx.aspx

JLM

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Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #2 on: 16 Jun 2003, 12:39 am »
Another vote for the 170's.

Well reviewed, reasonable easy load, very high content value, good materials, would be great for being on the move, super for the price ($329/pair).  

The cabinet finish is the biggest issue (it's a rough black vinyl).  But it's perfect for rough conditions (recreation rooms or dorms).  Even if you could damage it you probably wouldn't care.

I've had a pair for 2+ years and have used them mostly for HT.  They're too good for HT IMO and overmatch the VTF-2 sub I bought them with.  They blow away any Paradigm, Dynaudio, or B&W in the stated price range.  Those reproduce the outlines music like a black and white sketch.  In comparison the 170's paint in color.  They do need a sub for medium/large rooms.

Don't know about the ProAc's.

jackman

Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #3 on: 16 Jun 2003, 03:16 am »
Woodsea's recommendation is very good.  I know several people who swear by those little Ascend speakers.  Another choice you may want to look at is a nice pair of AV1's from Darren Thomas.  He is a regular on this forum and does really nice woodwork.  AV1's are well designed speakers that sound great with modest electronics.  If you plan to do some serious listening, I would suggest having Darren build you a pair of Ellis 1801's, but they would be pushing the envelope on your budget and would require better electronics to get the best out of them.  I own the Ellis and really love their sound.

J

Mad DOg

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Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #4 on: 16 Jun 2003, 03:25 am »
I'd recommend the Onix Ref 1s from www.av123.com for $1,500. Small monitors that play incredibly big...Amazing imaging, detail and bass extension for their size (actually for any size)...They do need quality upstream components to be at the utmost best...

Another I'd recommend would be the VMPS 626Rs (not really monitor sized though). Very good detail, imaging

Others that I haven't heard in the price range would be the ACI Sapphires, Ellis 1801s based on the comparisons to the Ref 1s and 626Rs that I've read about.

I don't think you could go wrong w/ any of these choices.

cyounkman

Reference 3A Dulcet
« Reply #5 on: 16 Jun 2003, 04:54 am »
The new Dulcet from Reference 3A is us$1500. Like their more expensive models, the main driver is run full-range (no crossover), and it should be fairly efficient. I haven't heard it, but it's supposed to be great.

Here's a review:
http://www.iar-80.com/page65.html

It's 9"x10"x13" (wdh)

If it's anything like Reference 3A's higher-priced speakers, it will be very revealing, so I would suggest careful system matching. (If you have ugly-sounding or bright electronics, a truthful monitor can be a an unpleasant listen, and necessitate a lot of upgrades.)

jackman

Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #6 on: 16 Jun 2003, 11:19 am »
Thanks MadDog,
I thought I suggested the Ref 1's but, after reading my post, realized I didn't.  They are very good sounding speakers and are among the most beautifully crafted speakers I have seen.  Another beautiful looking speaker is the Quad L series.  Haven't listened to them for long periods, but they have very nice cabinets and are highly rated by the Brit audio mags.

If you want use tube amplification, the Omega speakers made by Louis Chochos are amazing for the money.  I stress tube amplification because that's where these single driver crossoverless speakers really shine.  Louis' cabinet work is also first rate and he's a really good person to boot.  He also has a great demo policy and will work with you on custom finishes.  Like many of the manufacturers who frequent this forum, he's a real music lover who is in this for all the right reasons.

J

JackStraw

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Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #7 on: 16 Jun 2003, 01:14 pm »
Quote from: JLM
Another vote for the 170's.

Well reviewed, reasonable easy load, very high content value, good materials, would be great for being on the move, super for the price ($329/pair).


These speakers (AcendsAcoustics cbm-170's) have built in wall mounting hardware. Has anyone tried them with that setup?

Woodsea

Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #8 on: 16 Jun 2003, 01:21 pm »
Not yet, but I will be in my next house, they sell on their website for $40 a pop.  http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Main/Products/accessories.asp

audiojerry

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Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #9 on: 16 Jun 2003, 02:04 pm »
The CBM 170's sound like an amazing buy. And anytime you can audition something for 30 days or your money back, it's pretty much a no-brainer, except for shipping cost considerations. Too bad they don't offer a cabinet upgrade.  

If you can get the 1SC's  in excellent condition for under $1200, you can't go wrong, because they hold their value extremely well. You will have no trouble selling them in the future. I don't think I could ever sell mine. That's the first time I've said that about any speaker I've owned in my experience. I have not listened to a more transparent, involving, musical speaker.

Jackman, good to see you have some time to visit the AC :smile:
I hope to get together with you to hear the 1801 again some time and compare to the 1SC. Do you have it back together yet?

jackman

Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #10 on: 16 Jun 2003, 02:37 pm »
Hi Jerry,

The 1801's are officially back together and sounding very good.   The new crossovers seem to add a bit of warmth and depth to the presentation.  They can be pulled away from the rear walls without sounding thin, although I'd never characterize the Ellis as "warm".   I did everything you can do (wrong) when installing the new crossovers ...snapped wires, wired stuff out of phase, stripped connections, forgot to put stuffing back in speakers...anyway, it all turned out very good in the end.  I'd love to hear the Ellis and the ProAc's side by side.  I've always been a fan of the ProAc sound.  My friend Bob (Hectic) has the Onyx Reference 1's and loves to hear new speakers.  Bob's a good person and a very enthusiastic audio guy.   Plus he lives nearby.  

My system has changed a lot since you were over.  The AVA gear is  sounding very good, and I have a VPI turntable hooked up with an Express Matching Heavyweight and Van Alstine Longhorn cartridge.  Sounds very good.  The only problem is that I'm gone too much to be able to enjoy it!  The new job will settle down soon and hopefully, you and your wife can come down to have a listen.  Michelle would love to hang with your wife while we mess with the audiostuff.  Those Proac's shouldn't be too hard to lug along...as long as you don't drive that cool S2000!  

Take care,

Jack

batmanslc

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mini monitors
« Reply #11 on: 16 Jun 2003, 02:49 pm »
These two speakers may not qualify as mini, they are about 15-18" tall.
IN the last two months I have enjoyed the Quad 12L and Von Schweikert VR-1.  They are both wonderful sounding speakers from highly respected designers.  Retail on both is around $1,000 and can easily be found for $750 to 850.  The quad puts out more bass and vocals are fantastic.  MY preference is the VR-1 only because soundstage is wider and a touch more 'realism'. The VR requires a sub however.  I have owned many other speakers costing much more: (Talon, NHT, ACI Sapphire, BG 520 planar, MMG, Monsoon and Siverline) and the above mentioned monitors are VERY satisfying.  

Have Fun!

cyounkman

Quad, etc.
« Reply #12 on: 16 Jun 2003, 03:11 pm »
I definitely second the recommendation on the Quad 11L and, especially, 12L. The Quad L series are neutral yet forgiving, making them easy to match with electronics, and have a way with music. I don't find them impressively dynamic and they obviously won't plumb the depths, but they are a very nice line.

I would guess the Quads would play an understated, burnished counterpoint to the Dulcet's characteristically brilliant, dynamic performance.

Unfortunately, I haven't heard either the 170's or the Ref 1's. In terms of system matching, though; if you can find a very affordable speaker which is musical and fairly neutral (and whose bandwidth and dynamic limitations you can live with), pour the extra money into source and amplification that will make it sing.

TheeeChosenOne

Re: Quad, etc.
« Reply #13 on: 16 Jun 2003, 04:21 pm »
Definitely gotta thow the Green Mountain Europas into the group (about $750-$800 street).  Has bested ML floorstanding stats, Revel m20, Quad 12L, Vandersteen, Paradigm 100, and Meadowlark to name a few.  Compared crystal clarity like the Maggies (time/phase coherent, first-order crossover):

Enter "Europa" and/or "Europas" in SEARCH box:........... http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl

For more info.,Roy Johnson can be emailed at: gma@pcisys.net



========================================
Here's some info. that was given to me:.............
========================================

The Europa Specs:

All cast marble- 45lbs ea.
8 x 10.25"d x 18.5" high.
Flares out 2 degrees each side,
Leans back 6 degrees- only 8.25"d at top.

$880/pr retail with the latest crossover parts (was $780 list)
Goes on stands 24-28" for couch-height listener.
On 36-38" stands for 4 foot-away nearfield listener in an office chair (studio monitoring-nearfield).
Works fine on a (sturdy) bookshelf or breakfront.

Uses the newer version of the Continuum 0.5's 6" woofer. Ported on the front panel.

Morel tweeter with Sonicap premium capacitor and Audio Magic wire,
AuraSound neodymium-magnet woofer, with Solen Litz-wire inductor and Audio Magic wire.
Vampire wire brass/silver/gold binding posts.

1st-order x-over at 2850Hz
+/- 0.75dB from 55Hz to 20kHz, -3dB at 47 Hz freefield
105dB peak SPL, midband at 2 meters
Will fill a LARGE room if 150W/ch (8 Ohm rating) power is avail.
88-89dB sensitivity
This is a 4 Ohm speaker, rising an Ohm higher in the tweeter's range.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Green Mountain Story
(their advertised info--copied from another site)

We typically build several hundred speakers total per year- obviously not a threat to the big boys. However, we maintain several advantages- in experience and skill, in customer service, and also in the talents of Roy Johnson, our product designer.

He brings the skills of a physicist, a recording and pro-sound engineer, master cabinetmaker and moldmaker. He is experienced in high-vacuum, high-temp, and cryogenics processes, aero, hydro and thermo dynamics, optical system design and was a glassblower. He reads music, plays piano, synthesizers and harmonica, but can't sing ever since his voice changed (a blessing for sure). When he was 19, Roy began work for Hewlett/Packard here in town, building oscilloscope tubes (one machine purchased from RCA in the early 1960's had made most of RCA's famous vacuum tubes).

He left H/P after a few years to work for audio stores, and then created a local chain of hi-end stores. He moved into audio manufacturing (working for others) for a few years, then into pro-sound and recording. One gig was recording our symphony for several years in the Pikes Peak Center. This is one of the top ten acoustic environments in the US- it still attracts famous artists and guest conductors.

All the while, Roy was experimenting with speaker designs, studying not only the competition he was selling and installing, but the large body of research published on sound and perception since the 1600's.

In 1986, he returned to university for physics studies, teaching undergraduate Physics courses while in graduate school. He also designed and installed very large "foreground" multi-kilowatt sound systems several times a year for a chain of billiards parlors who needed LOUD ultra-hi fi sound. During that period, he designed a unique hydrodyamic-force measuring system for the US Olympic swim team's Aquatic Research Center here in town.

For his BA degree's senior project, he formulated the mathematics that described how the ideal radiation pattern of a loudspeaker in the home could be obtained, and what that "ideal dispersion pattern" should be. His work was based on all that was published about the art of recording, and of psychoacoustics. The thesis was titled "Requirements for the Design of a Time-coherent Loudspeaker with a Dispersion Pattern Decreasing Monotonically with Increasing Frequency". The Imago and Diamante emerged from this research.

He studied the "solid-state" branch of Physics- not about semiconductors only, but everything that happens outside the nucleus- all the electron-electron and electron-nucleus interactions that define materials science, and all the space/time behaviours of E-M waves, down to the quantum level. He completed all of his BA, and all but the last two courses of his MS in Physics (he hadn't taken the thesis option), as GMA took up more of his time. He says those last two courses may never happen... He still guest-lectures on occasion at Colorado College and high schools.

Roy takes whatever time is required to fully develop each design to its maximum potential. This is reflected in the choice of parts, the circuits' designs, and the enclosures- all guided by physics more than marketing. While craftsmanship and insight often produce a superior product, we couldn't do what we do without these unique drivers, circuit parts and cabinet materials.

Each of those was designed by equally talented people at the top of their professions, as it is a full-time profession just to design raw drivers- woofer, mid or tweeter. It's a profession in its own right to chemically engineer the resin in our cast marble or the wood materials in our woofer cabinets. Those engineers look to us to produce a complete, state-of-the-art system from the best parts. Our job is really best described as systems' design and integration: coherently and seamlessly blending the outputs of the world's finest drivers, mounting them in superior cabinetry. They make the best drivers- we make their drivers sound their best. From what we've seen, no speaker company can make their own drivers that compare to what driver-specialists produce, no matter what may be advertised- their measurements actually show that.

Thanks for reading this through. We hope it gave you a better understanding of what we believe it takes to be thoroughly professional in this business, and why it's important to do everything right, including making every customer happy, and each recording enjoyable.[/img]

TheeeChosenOne

Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #14 on: 16 Jun 2003, 04:30 pm »
The Odyssey Epiphony also should be on anyone's short-list.

They sound better than the highly reviewed Von Schweikert VR-1, Quad 12L.

doug s.

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Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #15 on: 16 Jun 2003, 04:45 pm »
i had a pair of proac 1sc's in my system for a week & they were great.  almost as nice as my old meret re monitors.  which is really amazing, since they retail for over $1k less, & are *really* small; & i have a large room, tho supplemented by subs.  if yure interested in adding a sub to the mix, ya may wanna check out the proac reference 8 signature - proac usa sez they're better in the midrange & treble, while giving up a little to the 1sc in the bass region.

i'd also check out the gr-research diluceo's (mebbe a bit too large?) or the smaller criterion's.  the only reservation i had w/the criterion (slight lack of detail), has supposedly been addressed w/a x-over revision.  again, a speaker that i could happily live w/in my system; again, i slightly preferred my merets.  

i also would consider the zu monitor - i have yet to hear this; i am on the waiting list for an audition via fedex ground.   :)   if it's half what it's cracked up to be - almost all the goodness of the zu druid, w/o that last octave - it should be killer.  and, @ 100db/1w/1m, ya can try those flea-power amps ya always dreamed about!   :wink:

doug s.

TheeeChosenOne

Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #16 on: 16 Jun 2003, 07:37 pm »
Proac 1sc is indeed very good, especially in the lower regions, but a little pricey.  *Lots* of great competition in that price range...

ehider

Mini monitor recommendations
« Reply #17 on: 16 Jun 2003, 07:53 pm »
I am QUITE surprised that nobody here has mentioned the GR Research monitor offerings. IMHO this company offers one of the best bang for the buck choices out there (and I've heard over 100 monitors at last count!). I firmly beleive that the latest ribbon based offerings compare to virtually any top of the line audiophile monitor at any price, no matter how much money you spend!

Oops: It looks as if poster Doug did mention GR as a potential recommendation. Anyway, my advice here is make the GR's of your first considerations.

avahifi

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Wonder why Biros arn't mentioned?
« Reply #18 on: 16 Jun 2003, 08:10 pm »
For all the kind comments our electronics get, I wonder why nobody has mentioned our Biro L/1 loudspeakers ($1595 a pair, black or natural oak)?  Go to www.audioreview.com and search for Biro and look at all the rave reviews.  They are what we are listening to when evaluating amp and preamp designs, and we certainly have not found their limits yet.

Frank Van Alstine

avahifi

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Wonder why Biros arn't mentioned?
« Reply #19 on: 16 Jun 2003, 08:12 pm »
For all the kind comments our electronics get, I wonder why nobody has mentioned our Biro L/1 loudspeakers ($1595 a pair, black or natural oak)?  Go to www.audioreview.com and search for Biro and look at all the rave reviews.  They are what we are listening to when evaluating amp and preamp designs, and we certainly have not found their limits yet.

Frank Van Alstine