Yet another request for speaker project input

The Oracle · « **on:** 15 Jun 2003, 09:32 am »

Be gentle with me - my first request.
Yes, a shameless grovelling for input for an audio ONLY speaker kit or project. I have searched and researched for many weeks to narrow down the choice to the list below - BUT, I don't know how any of these sound, cause I live in New Zealand.
All knowledge of these has come from opinion, rumour and hearsay on several forums - and the odd email.
Objective - Dynamic but not aggressive sound with solid clean bass, that is best quality for the price (of course!)
Music - typically mild pop/rock with some acoustic /band /classical. A realistic portrayal of instruments, particularly the drum kit, preferred over holographic imaging.
Room - 18x14x8, concrete floor. Near wall designs preferred (so I don't have to move them each time to listen, I have family)
Subwoofer expected with any 5" bass driver model.
My shortlist from O, R & H (above)
Northcreekmusic Okara Ikema
GR Research A/V 1 - A/V 1+ (now A/V 2)
Murphyblaster (unfortunately non-near wall)
Swans M1
BESL 1.2 or DIY2000
Dillon Acoustics Metaphor or Attitude
Aksonics
VMPS QSO404 with or without upgraded Focal tweeter (8" is large for midrange) and QSO 626se unshielded (much dearer though - but would it really need a sub?)
What have I missed?

All comments appreciated (the winner publicly thanked)
P.S. this is not an 'excercise'

The Oracle

JLM · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Jun 2003, 11:03 am »

Oracle:

Sounds like you prefer tonality to imaging, dynamics over maximum output (volume) is not a priority, and perhaps bass over treble extension.

Don't know your amplifier specs, but here goes...

Try a single, full range 4 inch driver in either an open baffle with a sub or a wide faced transmission line cabinet and possibly skip the sub. A couple of drivers come to mind. Fostex FE127E is 93 dB/w/m efficient if your into SET's or other very small amps. This would be ideal for the open baffle and it's shielded for use around the TV. (Hard to get good dynamics from an inefficient driver.) Jordan 92S is 87 dB/w/m efficient but goes down to 40 Hz in free space.

With some damping material directly behind the single driver an open baffle (just a rigid sheet of something, the bigger the better) can produce a wonderfully coherent, dynamic sound. The baffle can be floor, wall, or corner mounted. Also goes by the name infinite baffle. Search AA, Decware, single driver, and other forums. Typically the driver is NOT mounted in the center of the baffle. It can be covered with silk screening to blend into the family setting.

A couple of commerical designs exist for the Jordan 92S in a wide faced transmission line cabinet (Carolina Audio and the Gaincard 47 folks). 6 moons has reviewed the Gaincard version. But the Jordan company web site has plans for DIY. The Jordan drivers are amazing (40 - 20,000 Hz, aluminum foil cone, designed to flex so that as frequency goes up a smaller and smaller center portion of the cone is involved, the design concept has been around for decades). If you've never heard transmission line bass you're in for a real treat. Not easy to design or understand, but realistic and fast. Transmission lines extend bass response down and even out the impedance hump all dynamic speakers have.

Both these designs seem to play into your wants for musical satisfaction above audiophile hyper real playback that many of us get caught up into.

jeff

Rocket · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Jun 2003, 12:10 pm »

hi the oracle,

as you live in new zealand you should be mindful of shipping costs and taxes, i've investigated this as i live in perth western australia. it really adds up plus the nz dollar should be figured in as well.

all being said though you could try the aksonics as you can import the xover and buy the drivers from new zealand. if you wait a month or so apparently hugh is going to have the xover redesigned using xt vifa tweeters and drivers. the xt driver is very good.

you could also consider war audio here in perth western australia pat builds assembled and kit speakers, they are very good. i have a pair of war audio speakers which use focal 7 inch drivers and raven 1 ribbon tweeters in an mtm setup.
www.warco.com.au

best wishes

rocket

The Oracle · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Jun 2003, 10:04 am »

JLM - I always forget something!
Am building an AKSA 100watt, so am not into SET. This has ability to drive 4 ohms easily. Hadn't considered the small full range, but definitely know and like T-line. Had built Chris Rogers T-line 25 years ago, but complexity of box and size is off-putting. Hence a possible sub would have to sound good!
Linkwitz Pheonix or Orion would be on the VERY short list with a LOT more
greenbacks

Rocket - I know who you are, and WILL tell your wife you're going the whole GK route

Yes, mindfull of freight, tax, xchge rate, hence the $250- $350 range.
WARCO's site is incomplete, couldn't find DIY. Their range of brands are all premium priced though - no?

I really wish someone who has compared and bought new generation
VMPS QSO404's would surface.
Anyone else?

The Oracle

JohnR · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Jun 2003, 10:21 am »

The Adire coax kits might be worth a look.

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Jun 2003, 05:35 pm »

Here's the Jordan 92S site:

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/drive_frameset2.htm

and the Carlina Audio site:

http://www.carolinaaudio.com/

The Jordan site has basically the same cabinet design as the Carolina Audio JTM model. This speaker is essentially the same as the $3,600.00 USD Gaincard. Check the Carolina Audio site for the wood currently used. Search AA for very promising reports of the JTM. Import the drivers and find a cabinet builder. No crossover to fuss with. Should match up very well to the AKSA 100 wpc. Save thousands!! Send me just half of what you'll save.

aaird · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Jun 2003, 10:30 pm »

Might I personally suggest a different DIY speaker? Try your hand at building the Poly Natalias. You can buy the wood for the cabinets, saving a bundle. The drivers and crossovers are kind of pricey, but you should be able to find them somewhere on your side of the pond that will save you some expensive shipping.

See www.blackdahlia.com for details.

I own a pair, and they are to diy for!

Andrew

KevinW · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Jun 2003, 10:50 pm »

Quote from: The Oracle

Be gentle with me - my first request.
Objective - Dynamic but not aggressive sound with solid clean bass, that is best quality for the price (of course!)
Music - ...

I can recommend two ideas for you...

1. The Adire HE10 kit. This is a very clean sounding and cheap speaker. Neutral, balanced across the entire spectrum, and decent bass. When mated with the Adire Rava sub, it blends seamlessly. Without the sub, it is a little lacking in the lowest octave. It's hard to ignore it for the price.

2. The Jordan TL speaker. I have built my own modified version, and I admit that it is one of the best speakers I have ever heard. The bass is very clean down to about 60hz, but it definitely lacks oomph. It does mate very well to a sub however, becuase TL speakers have such a clean rolloff in the low frequencies. However, the midrange of this driver is out of this world. So clean, and tonally accurate, I have never heard a more realistic portrayal of instruments, except for those that have a lot of deep bass because a single 4" driver just can't hack out those low notes. For this reason, it is slightly lacking when playing pop/rock, but it is definitely in the Oh My God category for classical or acoustic music.

Rocket · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 11:01 am »

hi oracle,

okay you've read some of my threads. unfortunately at this stage i will not be buying a gk1 although i would really like to. i cannot live without remote control and i won't have the $$$$ available when it will be released

if you are building the aksa 100 the aksonic would be an excellent choice, especially with the new vifa xt tweeter. pat's speakers are quite expensive, my kit cost $2500 au plus speakers, but they are awesome. he must be having his website redesigned it was working okay a month or two ago. you could send him an email requesting information regarding kits.

regards

rocket

btw are you doing the nirvana as well or later? mine is burning in at the moment and i'm quite impressed.

The Oracle · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 07:36 pm »

Rocket - Not adding nirvana - yet. I would rather add a pre-amp b4 that.
AKsonic with XT25 sounds much more appealing, but would push price above NZ$1000. Woofer is changing too. It would still need a sub.
e.g. QSO404 might be around NZ$6-700. AudioReview.com EFE's is another very reasonable sounding kit, which uses the same 6.5" as 1st
AKsonic, which could be reused.

Find it curious that my list of supposedly well considred kits has not been commented on, except for the AKsonic - but remember I haven't heard anything.
Gotta fly to work - bye

The Oracle

Rocket · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Jun 2003, 11:23 pm »

hi oracle,

have you checked out zalytron? they have many kits for you to consider.
murphyblaster, dillon attitude and other kits.

here is a link for you:

www.zalytron.com

gr research have received good reviews, i think there is a link on danny's forum. ellis audio 1801's also have good recommendations.

regards

rocket

The Oracle · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Jun 2003, 09:24 am »

Rocket - Yes to all your suggestions, I've researched them conclude they should all sound fantastic! Am keen to hear from people who can explain the relative strengths and sounds compared to each other.
I see GR is introducing a T2 model tweeter soon.

The Oracle