[John B]

I`ll tell ya John, my speakers aren`t that bad which just makes me want to dive into the quarry of debt THAT much more

Robin,

I'm sure your speakers will do fine with the Butler.   The advantage of many new speakers is they are starting to develop drivers that can take advantage of the hi-res formats.  In particular SACD with it's extended high frequency range.  My new Dynaudio Contour speakers can actually reproduce frequencies beyond the 20khz range.

[Mad DOg]

...To me brightness in an audio presentation relates to highs that are "harsh", and a tonal balance that is usually biased towards overshadowing the mid to lower frequencies...

John B,

From http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?50:2

bright, brilliant The most often misused terms in audio, these describe the degree to which reproduced sound has a hard, crisp edge to it. Brightness relates to the energy content in the 4kHz-8kHz band. It is not related to output in the extreme-high-frequency range. All live sound has brightness; it is a problem only when it is excessive.

The highs I heard were harsh as it hurt my ears. Of course whether the harshness was due to the source material, source player, pre/pro or amp is what I am not sure of now. Maybe the ATI masks the brightness. I wish I would've kept the amp for a week to use in my 2 ch system...That would've allowed me to be certain of where the brightness was coming from.

[John B]

Brightness relates to the energy content in the 4kHz-8kHz band

Interesting, now if "energy" relates to output I can measure with my sound meter, I can test for this in the 4kHz-8kHz range.    I just got my Rives Audio Test CD 2 disc last week, and it has test tones for this range.  I'll check it out this weekend.

[satfrat]

I badly want to try out Klaus`s Nightingale speakers as my Bose are 10-18 years old and won`t highlight shit

Robin,

My friend, you are in dire need of a speaker upgrade   Had you mentioned that you had 80's vintage speakers I would have advised upgrading speakers before getting the amps.  But what's done is done, now you need join me in deep debt hell and get some decent woofers and tweeters!

      John, I have been going over these words of wisdom from you and I realize that given a limited budget, the speakers are always the first to be replaced. But I went the carpenter route by starting with the foundation (power conditioning), the framework (amps/pro), and finally the walls & roof (mains/rears/f&r centers). Well I`m STILL waiting for a shipping number from Luis. He was suppose to email it to me last friday,,, then this thursday. I expect that my amps haven`t been shippped yet even. It`s really not a problem, I`m a patient man, but I`ve had the time to reflect on what I`m hooking $6000 of components up to, 18 yr old BOSE! Screw it! I just got thru working a deal with Klaus of Odyssey and have ordered 2 pairs of Lorelei`s and 2 Nemisis centers. The future is NOW. I may not be an audiophile but my system will be audiophile grade. Regards, Robin

[Sa-dono]

I just got thru working a deal with Klaus of Odyssey and have ordered 2 pairs of Lorelei`s and 2 Nemisis centers. The future is NOW. I may not be an audiophile but my system will be audiophile grade.

Congrats on your purchase..seems like you should have a sweet setup

[satfrat]

I just got thru working a deal with Klaus of Odyssey and have ordered 2 pairs of Lorelei`s and 2 Nemisis centers. The future is NOW. I may not be an audiophile but my system will be audiophile grade.

Congrats on your purchase..seems like you should have a sweet setup

                         Thanks, sure do hope so, I feel like I`m coming out of the closet, being a Bose owner for 18 good years. Now lets see what it is that everybody`s been telling me I`ve been missing out on, heh? Regards, Robin

[John B]

Holy Cow Robin, I thought I was the king of wholesale system upgrades, but you just took the crown! Congratulations, I now know you're going to be on cloud 9 when you get it all hooked up.   Wish we were in the same neck of the woods, I'd love come over to hear it all.

[John B]

I ran the Rives audio test cd today.  Some interesting results.  First, my Dynaudio's that are only rated down to 35hz had no problem reproducing a 20 hz signal on the radio shack sound meter at 70db, which was my baseline for the rest of the frequency tone tests.  As expected I had a 6db spike at 40hz, but also a 5db spike at 63hz and a whopping 8db spike at 80, 100, 125, 160 & 200.  From there at 250 to 6300khz things remain stable at close to 70db, then there's a -3db drop from 8000khz to 16000khz and then -5db drop at 20K.  This tells me I have the usual low to mid bass room issues, but there are no spikes in the high frequencies that indicate any excess energy being introduced by the Butler.

[John B]

Robin,

You get those amps yet?????  Ever curious minds want to know

[satfrat]

Robin,

You get those amps yet?????  Ever curious minds want to know

                         My amps were sent out today, got the tracking numbers and with 3 day delivery I might get them friday. or tuesday. Really makes no difference as it`ll be late september before I get those Odyssey Lorelei`s. Still, I can`t wait til I get my hands on them amp so I can tear into them and start playing, see how their put together. Butler Audio says that these amps are practically bulletproof and easy to service/upgrade. I think I`ll be glad I listened to your impressions John. Regards, Robin

[witchdoctor]

John B,
For bass issues I have found 8th nerve room treatment to be the most help, followed by placing my subwoofer on Mapleshade Ultimate Triple Point cones with a large heavy hat.

[witchdoctor]

Rbin, apparently your amp was a hit at the Stereophile show. On Pg. 56 of Sept. 2003 it says the room with the Butler was one of the most musical rooms at the shw.

[satfrat]

Rbin, apparently your amp was a hit at the Stereophile show. On Pg. 56 of Sept. 2003 it says the room with the Butler was one of the most musical rooms at the shw.

  Sounds real good Doc, I`ll be finding out shortly as my amps will be delivered tuesday. It`s been a long wait but I still have a 4-5 week wait til I get my Lorelei`s. Then I`ll REALLY find find out what this tube amp is all about. I`m confident that I`m in for a treat.  Regards, Robin

[John B]

I`m confident that I`m in for a treat.  

My local HT club held it's August Meet at my place yesterday, we had 9 attendees.   The Butler amp was a huge crowd pleaser.   Discs were brought by the members that they use to test for the musicality and dynamics of their gear, and the Butler passed with flying colors.   Everyone loved the sound.  One disc in particular was a real eye and ear opener, a DVD called Animusic.   A simply wonderful expression of music and animation that I had to have after hearing it yesterday, ordered me one today.

Witchdoctor,

Thanks for the tips, I'll have to check those products out.

John

[satfrat]

Robin,

You get those amps yet?????  Ever curious minds want to know

                         September8, 2003,,, I`m finally up and running with 2 Butler Audio 3150`s, a Sunfire Theater Grand 3 processor, and Ridge Street Audio`s Midnight Silver Edition IC`s, speaker wire, and digital cable w/ a Bybee on EACH end. First off, the display of these 3 components in my Sanus rack is nothing short of stunning! The Sunfire takes center stage with it`s cobalt blue display surrounded by rows of tangerene yellow lights. The processor is in turn surrounded by a Butler 3150 tube amp, one above and one below, each with it`s 3 blue glowing tubes accompanied by a blue power on light. As good as this triple display of blue is, it takes a distant second to the sound. I have no doubt that I`m being held back by yesterday Bose floorstanders now. As smooth and detailed as this sound is, I know that NOTHING is ever gonna make these speakers sound any better. Gone is the bright/heavy Yamaha sound,,, that has been now replaced with a much more detailed sound,,, smooth/very smooth with a hint of brightness, no doubt all the Ridge Street silver cabling that includes the digital cable along with the 6 IC`s connecting the amps to the Sunfire plus the silver speaker wiring in the front 3 speakers. BTW, I have Signal Cable double wire (10 gage) cable for the rear 3 speakers. This cable consist of 4 braided wires per conductor or 2 separate cables per speaker which adds up to a ton of copper in a 45' run x 3. Anywho, I`m only into my first 6 hrs of 24/7 breakin time that will be going on for the next week. But as far as I`m concerned, all I`ve accomplished so far is a very pretty display of blue lights occupying my audio rack. I`m still 3-4 weeks away from truely entering the world of high end audiobliss when I finally closet my Bose with the arrival of my 4 Odyssey Audio Lorelei`s. THEN and only then will I hear what I have here. Regards, Robin

[witchdoctor]

Congratulations!!! How about posting some photos?

[satfrat]

Congratulations!!! How about posting some photos?

                     You want photos of my Bose Doc? Afraid I don`t have either a digital camera or a downloading comuter. My Webtv limits me badly. Hell, I can`t even see the pictures here at AC. And with what my spending spree has been lately, I`ll be living with my Webtv for some time. Regards, Robin

[satfrat]

These Butler amps have had a chance to burn in now for 40 hrs, I kinda miss that ‘burning in’ tube smell of the first day tho. It brought me back to when I was a kid and dad just brought home a new tube radio for the family livingroom. You alway knew it was on just by the smell. Anyways, these amps are impressing me to no end. The intricate details that Butler amps portrait are quite incredible. Gone was that hint of harshness that I noticed the first few hours. I now have a very real soundstage that leaves me wanting those new speakers even more so. I really NEED to now what I have here which I feel is gonna be something special. As unreliable as the internet can be, this jem of an amp is a quite a find and attests to the accuracy of John Beaver`s reviews.  You`ve done good John. Regard, Robin

[John B]

Robin,

I'm very pleased that my review helped you with your decision, and that the amp works for you like it does for me in my rig.  The Butler amp is truly amazing, producing the incredible detail as you described.  Beyond even the rich detail is that sense of a live performance, with depth and texture to music I'd never heard before.    The amp will continue to grow in those characteristics over time.   I reached a new level with this amp just recently.   I had thought the break-in period had reached it peak weeks ago, but I was wrong.   I significant expansion in both soundstage presence and fidelity occured last week.   I know some will say that this is imaginary, but I trust my ears and my preceptions, and what I heard was not a subtle transistion.   Your new speakers will bring to life this amps potential, I envy you your first experience with this  

[satfrat]

I envy me too John. Thanks for sharing that insight about your Butler, you`ve had yours for a couple of months now heh? I`m glad I`ll have a month under by belt by the time Klaus gets them 6 new Odyssey loudspeakers to me. I`ve got Allison Krauss and the Union Station`s double DVD that I haven`t even opened yet, I`m gonna wait til everything`s jelled before popping that bad boy in. All in good time,,, Regards, Robin