Anyone heard the five channel Butler hybrid amp?

EDS_ · « **on:** 13 Jun 2003, 12:53 am »

http://tubedriver.com

look for link to home gear-4th possible line of text------

Woodsea · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 01:00 am »

I haven't, but am really interested!!! It looks cool as well.

Sa-dono · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 02:08 am »

John B · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 02:12 am »

I'll have one the week of the 23rd. I did get to hear their new mono amps at the HE show this weekend, but I missed the AIX Records demo room setup where the 5150 was being used. My friend heard it though and was very impressed. He met Mark Waldrup (AIX recording engineer) at the demo and Mark said he was impressed enough to want to keep the 5150 for his own use after the show.

Tyson · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 02:59 am »

John B, don't you already have the AVA FetValve 350ex? If so, I'd be interested in how it compares to the Butler. . .

Mad DOg · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 05:16 am »

i've heard the butler in my home in my system...

for a hybrid tube, it's awfully bright...brighter than my ATI AT2505...for the money, i'll keep my ATI since it didn't do anything that my ATI can't do just as well IMHO.

construction was not all that good either...rather thin gauge housing...i was entirely expecting more and had very high hope for it...just my opinion...

John B · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 05:21 pm »

Tyson,

Yes I did have the 350EX but sold it to a friend of mine just recently.

Well, Maddog's experience with the Butler is cause for concern. Bright amps and Dynaudio speakers are not a good match. Perhaps I should re-think this. I could always get the 550EX

and use my Omegastar 3-ch amp for center and rears. My goal was to have matching tube amplification on all channels though, and the Butler sure looked like the answer.

John B · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 05:39 pm »

I just had to run Maddog's experience with the Butler amp by my dealer. His response:

Quote

An overly bright tube amp?? That would be a first. If anything, tube amps
have a reputation for being warm which is the opposite. There are a lot of
people that would strongly dissagree with him. There are a lot of
audiophiles out there that don't know much about electronics and components and they wrongfully judge them . They don't know what the actual problem is with their sound system and they think it is a certain component which gets the blame. The construction is fantastic, so I don't know what amps he has owned to make such a comment.

Also, if you check the discussion forums there are a few other audiophiles
who say the opposite of him. They brag on the Butler Audio amps and say
that they are second to none.

I guess the truth will be found by actually using the product with my system and coming to my own conclusions. Nothing ventured nothing gained

Sa-dono · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 05:47 pm »

Quote from: John B

I just had to run Maddog's experience with the Butler amp by my dealer. His response:

Quote

An overly bright tube amp?? That would be a first. If anything, tube amps
have a reputation for being warm which is the opposite. There are a lot of
people that would strongly dissagree with him. There are a lot of
audiophiles out there that don't know much about electronics and components and they wrongfully judge them . They don't know what the actual problem is with their sound system and they think it is a certain component which gets the blame. The construction is fantastic, so I don't know what amps he has owned to make such a comment.

Also, if you check the discussion forums there are a few other audiophiles
who say the opposite of him. They brag on the Butler Audio amps and say
that they are second to none.

I guess the truth will be found by actually using the product with my system and coming to my own conclusions. Nothing ventured nothing gained

Well this is pretty funny to me

I'd definitely say you're welcome to try it out in your own system. But just don't be surprised if you're disappointed. I can verify that construction of the casing was rather cheap... Also, to put this in perspective, some of the Butler reps were present when I heard the amp (and it was obvious that it was bright), and they just thought it sounded simply phenomenal

They even gave me the usual sales pitch about how great it sounded and how you can you notice this and that now

JohnR · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 05:49 pm »

He appears to be contradicting himself... I don't get it, has he heard this "tube amp" for himself?

Sa-dono · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 05:51 pm »

Quote from: JohnR

He appears to be contradicting himself... I don't get it, has he heard this "tube amp" for himself?

It would appear not. Aren't some dealers just grand

John B · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 07:24 pm »

Sa-dono,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll admit I'm a bit nervous about this purchase, but I've read several very positive Butler 5150 owner/professional reviews(with no mention of brightness or construction issues) also.

In response to the brightness issue futher dealer feedback

Quote

Most of the time speakers and cables are what is responsible for bright
sound and other flaws, much more so than components. If the crossovers
inside the speakers are not acurate, then you will probably go crazy trying
to find proper components to correct the sound. You may hook up an amp that
is very acurate to it, but to you it sounds bright because the crossover
ratio of low to high frequencies is off. Also cables do the same thing. If
you use a cable that uses a small gauge, it tends to supress the low
frequencies and could make the sound bright. The absence of low frequencies
if a greater presence of higher and mid frequencies. Most audiophiles do
not realize that components are the very least of their worries!

I guess it does not matter how great a component is, you will never have
every single person agree that they like it. Whether it be ignorance or
just their difference of oppinion. There are thousands and thousands of
audiophiles so there are bound to be critics. I guess that is why most
people go by the reviews.

EDS_ · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 08:03 pm »

Quote from: John B

Sa-dono,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll admit I'm a bit nervous about this purchase, but I've read several very positive Butler 5150 owner/professional reviews(with no mention of brightness or construction issues) also.

In response to the brightness issue futher dealer feedback

John B-

Don't stress over the rap.

I don't think there is one chance in five-hundred that the Butler is bright on its own.
Too many people who I know a bit are falling all over themselves for this item. An old time audio dealer/pal said----"this is the first exciting amp in years". Another semi-friend is a mid-level player at Warner music. He heard the 5150 at the SF show last week--he was very impressed. A guy I know a little at MSB says the 5150 is going to be a winner.

As for lame casework-so what? With thick T-6061 casework the amp would weigh a ton and cost a bunch more.

IMO-you're in for a treat. So far my seat of the pants indirect vote is 11-2.

I'm pretty sure I'll order one for myself.

Sa-dono · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: John B

Sa-dono,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll admit I'm a bit nervous about this purchase, but I've read several very positive Butler 5150 owner/professional reviews(with no mention of brightness or construction issues) also.

No problem. I'm curious whether these owners/reviewers actually opened up the unit..and what associated gear was used?

Quote

In response to the brightness issue futher dealer feedback

Quote

Most of the time speakers and cables are what is responsible for bright
sound and other flaws, much more so than components. If the crossovers
inside the speakers are not acurate, then you will probably go crazy trying
to find proper components to correct the sound. You may hook up an amp that
is very acurate to it, but to you it sounds bright because the crossover
ratio of low to high frequencies is off. Also cables do the same thing. If
you use a cable that uses a small gauge, it tends to supress the low
frequencies and could make the sound bright. The absence of low frequencies
if a greater presence of higher and mid frequencies. Most audiophiles do
not realize that components are the very least of their worries!

I guess it does not matter how great a component is, you will never have
every single person agree that they like it. Whether it be ignorance or
just their difference of oppinion. There are thousands and thousands of
audiophiles so there are bound to be critics. I guess that is why most
people go by the reviews.

Heh..this dealer is a riot

To make it more clear...10 gauge speaker cable was used...and the speakers were Onix Rocket's...so definitely no problems with the crossovers or being bright speakers (until the Butler was added). I hope you haven't done business with this guy before

He seems like the type of guy that would be like this if you didn't agree with him

It'd definitely be nice if he actually listened to the product first (since it appears he hasn't)

Unless some changes with the amp have been made, then I would be highly surprised for things to be different, as what I heard was a production amp.

John B · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 11:32 pm »

Quote

I'm curious whether these owners/reviewers actually opened up the unit..and what associated gear was used?

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1047572073&read&3&4&

Sa-dono · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Jun 2003, 11:41 pm »

Quote from: John B

Quote
I'm curious whether these owners/reviewers actually opened up the unit..and what associated gear was used?

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1047572073&read&3&4&

Thanks for the link John! This about sums it up for me, "The high are extended"

Of course I'm unfamiliar with the Dynaco's..so I can't say what this guy's reference point is.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 12:13 am »

Pardon me if I don't use the requisite 49 emoticons, but try the amp yourself. One mans' bright is another mans airy. Many tube lovers prefer a rolled-off high end, after all besides the middle what else does a tube amp have?

Mad DOg · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 01:31 am »

Quote from: John B

...Maddog's experience with the Butler is cause for concern. Bright amps and Dynaudio speakers are not a good match. Perhaps I should re-think this...

John B.,

Only by auditioning it yourself will you know how you feel about this amp...

Here's my preference...I love smooth speakers...ie Dyns, Rockets, and VAs...I do not like brighter sounding speakers...

The only thing that got swapped out in my audition of the Butler was the amp. Everything else remained constant. With the ATI, i have never felt that the sound was excessively bright. With the Butler, i was cringing...

If you use a warm tube pre and tube source, then it is highly possible that the Butler would have been acceptable to my ears but in MY SYSTEM, it was a no go...BTW, i have since heard other integrated tube amps and very much enjoyed their sound. what i heard that day was NOT the same type of sound...

Just sharing my opinion. YMMV...hope you have a chance to audition it for yourself. Happy listening...

Mad DOg · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 01:41 am »

Quote from: EDS_

...As for lame casework-so what? With thick T-6061 casework the amp would weigh a ton and cost a bunch more...

if i'm paying over $3K for an amp, i would expect it to be constructed MUCH better than an Acurus A125x5 (MSRP $1,595)...IMHO, $3K is not cheap so therefore it should not come w/ a cheap lightweight gauge case...

John B · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Jun 2003, 03:46 am »

After some audio soul searching I've decided to go ahead with the purchase. I do have a tube source, a warmish pre-pro and the new Contour S3.'4s don't have the "extended high" capable drivers as my previous Special 25's did. Had they, I would not have gotten the amp, as the 25's were making me cringe a little with the resolution they were capable of in the high frequencies. Besides even if the amp is not up to "glorious levels of audio pleasure" the deal I'm getting has me with 2 pair of the new X Reference series Synergistic interconnects. $2K value for only $600. That's hard to pass up