Time to play a little audio poker

James Romeyn · « **Reply #20 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 04:31 am »

Quote from: Sa-dono

Come on John..are you going to take this!?!?!? Time for you to get rid of the RPTV, buy a projector & perforated screen, buy the Trinaural processor, and buy another RM40 or RM/x

The RMX is not available, & won't be for at least several months.

Tyson · « **Reply #21 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 04:36 am »

When I heard that AV123 and VMPS might colaborate, my immediate thought was the RMX's would be at the top of the list. Any truth in this?

James Romeyn · « **Reply #22 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 04:37 am »

It occurred to me, after JB 'splained at CES that about 50% of the Tri output is from the center, that Julian's exact system would be ideal. Am very glad to read that someone tried it, & not terribly surprised that it sounds good. It only made sense that the two outside channels did not need to be as large as the center, though they should be as high in overall resolution & quality.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #23 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 04:53 am »

Quote from: Tyson

When I heard that AV123 and VMPS might colaborate, my immediate thought was the RMX's would be at the top of the list. Any truth in this?

The RMX is not going to be available for a long time if ever. AV123 is not going to make any difference in my opinion. Brian's history of team efforts is such that I feel confident in predicting an AV combined effort ain't gonna happen, regardless of the happy faces in earlier posts. The best & only real VMPS upgrade path now is the FF1 SRE, if Brian has or can come up with an appropriate frame for the Neo panels. He was earlier downplaying the FF because he thought the X was comming. Now that the X is delayed indefinitely, he may rethink the FF &/or come up with a cabinet design simpler than the X. BTW, was my prediction correct that those exotic computer animated custom RM40 cabinets never were built? I have been to the shop which made the sum total 3 X cabinets. The herculean effort to manufacture them is unreal. A more realistic price for the X is about twice the advertised price.

audiochef · « **Reply #24 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 05:20 am »

Just wanted to say beautiful setup,bet it rocks.

Sedona Sky Sound · « **Reply #25 on:** 23 Jul 2003, 09:14 pm »

Hello Jim,
I guess you have not talked to Brian in the last 24 hours. There was a meeting yesterday (lawyers involved this time) and the RM/X is back on track. He should have received 2 pair of finished cabinets today with another 30 pair to follow soon. The RM/Xs for my demo room should ship next week (heard this before, but reasonably optimistic this time).

I fully agree with you that given the dificulty in making the cabinets, the actual price should be twice what it is. Per Brian, he is now paying "significantly more" for the cabinets than he originally expected. I commend him for still letting this first run go at the original advertised price (breaking even of maybe even loosing money in the process). I would not be at all surprised (and would not fault Brian at all) if there is a price increase in the next few months.

Tyson,
I personally don't forsee Mark Shiftner making the RM/X cabinets. The size and weight would make them prohibitively expensive to ship from China. It would also be very dificult to add a wood veneer to the RM/X which is what Mark's shop specializes in. Strictly a guess on my part, but it would make more sense to start with the 626R line and work up from their (Mark already has tooling for that size speaker, the weight is relatively low, and you can shove a bunch of them into a cargo container). Only time will tell.

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

James Romeyn · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 Jul 2003, 02:26 am »

Quote from: Sedona Sky Sound

Hello Jim,
I guess you have not talked to Brian in the last 24 hours. There was a meeting yesterday (lawyers involved this time) and the RM/X is back on track. He should have received 2 pair of finished cabinets today with another 30 pair to follow soon. The RM/Xs for my demo room should ship next week (heard this before, but reasonably optimistic this time).

I fully agree with you that given the dificulty in making the cabinets, the actual price should be twice what it is. Per Brian, he is now payin ...

Julian
I absolutely respect you & admire your dedication to this field. That said, the RMX is dead, Brian's stories notwithstanding. You or anyone else thinking otherwise are simply mistaken. One week ago the second principal of the cabinet shop, when asked if the cabinets were forthcoming soon, answered with dead silence. He read from the attorney's letter, & it is clear the letter contadicts Brian's hopeful conclusions. As for "30 pair", I would bet even money that no such thing will happen before March '04. This is the way it is. Everyone has been told, so there's no reason to be surprised in '04 when the X still has not materialized. It's time to get on with other things. Indefinitly the upgrade step is the FF Neo.

wshuff · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 Aug 2003, 01:46 am »

So, uh...which way did it go? Any word on the RM/X?

shokunin · « **Reply #28 on:** 3 Aug 2003, 03:18 am »

Yeah, I can easily see the cabinets costing, in finished form, $5K (80 hours * $60/hr) If you add on trying to veneer the swooshes plus the whole cabinet, add on another $3K. Painting would be way easier than veneering the entire RM/x. Then again, my estimates are based on making the swooshes using convential woodworking tools. A CNC machine should be able to cut those out pretty quickly.

bubba966 · « **Reply #29 on:** 3 Aug 2003, 06:00 am »

I musta missed something. What's the deal with the RM/X's not being in production & lawyers?

James Romeyn · « **Reply #30 on:** 3 Aug 2003, 05:12 pm »

Until further notice the X is dead, plain & simple. It's history. We must eventually all get on with a new daydream. Sorry to be so blunt. IMO, having visitied the cabinet shop where the only 3 X cabinets in existence were made, the word "easy" could never be used in association with making them. They are in every step of the way, difficult to manufacture with a CNC, impossible to mass produce without. There are actually some legitimate reasons why Dave Wilson charges $9,000 for a 2-way. Start with a magnifying glass examination of his cabinets. If Wilson made the X they'd be available, cosmetically superb, & cost about $125k. My 2c worth.

Tell everyone interested to get the most expensive 40 they can afford, & don't ever mention the X again till you ask me to confirm the cabinets are in the shop ready to ship.

Add a large sub to the 40 or get the FF1 SRE, that's all that exists now or in the forseeable future.

Val · « **Reply #31 on:** 3 Aug 2003, 07:37 pm »

Sad to read that regarding what has to be one of the best speakers in the world. Owners of the few existing ones are really lucky.

Audio Architect · « **Reply #32 on:** 22 Aug 2003, 11:21 am »

Quote from: Sedona Sky Sound

While John C. has been working on his speaker tweaks, I have been busy putting the Trinaural Processor through its paces. I was extremely pleased with the RM40/LRC and 626R/LRC combinations I experimented with last week, but today I decided to take it to the next level:

After doing a total overhaul of my demo room, I was finally ready to sit back and relax for a little while. Unfortunately, (actually, fortunately might be the better word) as so ...

Since it was first introduced to the public I have been very interested in the Trinaural Processor. Since you are obviously very familiar with it could you please give your opinions on the best room treatment options for the Trinaural Processor. Normally multichannel processors require more room treatment than stereo to sound their best. Since the TP is somewhere in between are it's requirements closer to 2 channel or 5 channel reproduction in terms of room treatment?

lkosova · « **Reply #33 on:** 23 Aug 2003, 02:56 am »

Julian,

On this topic can you describe your room??? Size,treatments etc.etc.

Thanks

Larry

Sedona Sky Sound · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Aug 2003, 05:02 am »

When I built my room, my sole objective was getting the best possible sound. The room is based on Louden's Best Ratio which means the room is 14'x19'x10' . The walls are 10 inch thick styrophome and concrete so have about 70 db of attenuation but are relatively porous which acts a bass absorber and a mid/high frequency diffuser. I then have the entire room covered in relatively lightweight curtains on the side and back (as a high frequency absorber), heavier cotton drapes on the front. The floors are stained concrete with a large wool rug over Sonex between me and the speakers. The entire ceiling is a pseudo helmholtz resonator using birch panel board (no sheetrock) with about 3 feet of fiberglass insulation above it. In each corner, I have a true helmholts resonator tuned to roughly 30 Hz which is the first mode of the room. So far, the only “anomaly” in the room is a slight room mode at roughly 90 Hz that I still need to kill. The RT60 time for my room is roughly .5 seconds for all frequencies.

The room is not “perfect” but closer than anything I have personally heard. Folks that are used to a live room would probably find it to be a little over damp. At some point, I plan to add quadratic-residue diffusers on the back wall and on the side walls next to the speakers (will provide a little more “air” to the sound for those that like a wider soundstage).

As far as the Trinaural Processor goes, room treatment should be no different than with standard 2 channel. The only changes that you may make is if you move the side speakers to get them on the arc (which usually requires you to move them forward), then you might need to move your first-order reflection side absorbers forward as well. Since a majority of the sound is coming from your front, it actually makes the side room treatment not quite as critical. That may also mean that the rear treatment might be a little more critical but your normal diffuser or absorber (depending on your other room characteristics) used with your 2-channel system should still be fine. Other than that, I can’t think of anything different you would want to do.

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com