[Christof]

I have a couple questions for you Ellis Audio folks....

I was commissioned to build a pair of very nice 9"x14"x44" (about 2.25cu.ft) floor stander cabs for a friend.  Since I feel it such a waste of time to produce one of anything in my shop, I went ahead and made myself an extra pair of the cabs with blank solid wood baffles.  Because of the quality of these cabinets I would like to put a better speaker design in them than that chosen by my friend and I see low and behold that Dave's 1801b might just fit!  If I go with 1801b I will have a fair amount of room left in the bottom of the enclosure to do something with. 

I'd like to add a sub, if possible, in the bottom of each enclosure. I know the SCC300 is a good sub to use in conjunction with the 1801 design, I built 2 of them for Randog to use with his 1801's and he seemed pleased, but I do not have the room in my cabinets to house that 12" monster.  My new listening room is HUGE, infact my entire loft is one big open space of about 1200sq.ft so I could use some reinforcement in the bass dept.

My ideas so far:

Leave well enough alone!
Ask Dave about lower tuning in a large cabinet, possible TL?.
Side firing Peerless XXLS 12" in 1cu.ft sealed

Thanks for any ideas.
Chris 

[MaxCast]

Didn't you just sell such a beast 

[Christof]

Didn't you just sell such a beast 

Yes, well sort of.  They were indeed beasts but they were 4-ways which I sold to another AC member.  Sold not because of dissatisfaction of sound quality but rather, as a woodworker, I had the itch to build something new. 
-c

[Al Garay]

Unless you get someone to build you a passive 3-way crossover, you will need a plate amplifier (similar how Rick Craig does the RC4). In fact you might check with Rick on the components he uses - http://www.selahaudio.com/id67.html

TC Sounds has a special going on the TC1000 10" woofers, http://www.tcsounds.com/tc1000.htm

Also look at Phil Bamberg's XLS subs to do a PR woofer in single cabinet with 10" woofer rear facing and dual 10" PR's on opposite sides.

Publish what you decide as this would be helpful for many 1801 owners.

Good luck,

Al

[EProvenzano]

Based on comments I've read, the TC drivers are amazing but I'm surprised (disappointed) how low their sensitivity is.  83-85db, in most cases.
It's a good thing most of them can take 500-1000 watts.  You'll need all that power to get any sound out of those babies, but I'm guessing 500-1000 watt amps don't come cheap.

Is anyone fond of a musical sub driver that has 89+ db sensitivity?
I've used the SCC300, so I'd be interested in improving on it, if possible.
Eton drivers look interesting, but I can't find much user feedback on those.

Thanks.

[MarkM]

Side firing Peerless XXLS 12" in 1cu.ft sealed

Thanks for any ideas.
Chris 

The Whomp sub from Selah would fit the bill perfectly. Works in a 1cu ft cabinet.  I just built one from the kit form this past spring.  Comes with a 500w plate amp from I think TC sounds.  Has a parametric eq and other features that make it easier to balance with your room and speakers. 

[Rick Craig]

Based on comments I've read, the TC drivers are amazing but I'm surprised (disappointed) how low their sensitivity is.  83-85db, in most cases.
It's a good thing most of them can take 500-1000 watts.  You'll need all that power to get any sound out of those babies, but I'm guessing 500-1000 watt amps don't come cheap.

Is anyone fond of a musical sub driver that has 89+ db sensitivity?
I've used the SCC300, so I'd be interested in improving on it, if possible.
Eton drivers look interesting, but I can't find much user feedback on those.

Thanks.

The TC drivers have high moving mass (read heavy cones) to go low in smaller cabinet volumes. They have to do that because their suspensions are stiff. With a low compliance suspension it raises the Fs  but allows you to minimize the cabinet volume. To lower the Fs you then add more mass to the cone.

The penalty as you note is lower sensitivity but watts are fairly cheap these days. Drivers like the SCC300 are becoming rare.

[Christof]

1801's in a floor stander with Whomp subs....this could be an interesting project that might just stand a chance in my 1200 sq.ft room. 

I am very familiar with the Peerless XLS, sealed in one cu.ft.  I previously owned two of the Whomps from Rick Craig and they did a very nice job in the bass dept.  I also found that they integrated quite well with the Seas Excel 7" used in my last speaker project so it should go without saying that they would fit the bill with the 1801's. 

Thanks for the replys
-c 

[MaxCast]

Chris, are you going to do your cool looking cabinets?  The Dymaxion.

[Christof]

Maxcast

I doubt it, those friggin' things were the biggest PITA to build!  This go around will just be floor standers with side firing subs.  I would have to build about a half dozen of those Dymax cubes at one time inorder to make it even close to worth my while.  Fitting and finishing a 26 sided cabinet is simply self-induced torture not unlike eating a Scotch Bonnet,one of those things that seems like a good idea at the time 

[David Ellis]

I have a few ideas  , but not most of them will likely be discouraging  .

Ask Dave about lower tuning in a large cabinet, possible TL?.

A T/L or MLTQWP will obtain the best bass from any driver (okay, a huge friggin horn would work too), but considerable experimentation would be necessary.  Also, while the pipes are marginally better in the bass region, they do NOT have a profound impact. 

Years ago I had a "too big" pair of cabinets that I used for testing.  I filled the bottom of the larger floorstander with river sand (very little dust) to occupy the excess space.  This was somewhat risky though.  If the cabinet were accidentally tipped over, the driver would be filled with sand.  Since the arrival of children I generally fill the excess cabinet space with blocks of wood  .  This seems a much wiser approach.  Any inert material would fill the cabinet nicely.  Small cut/round rock would work well IMO.  This would make the cabinet very stable, but there would still be a risk of the cabinet tipping over.

//

You could leave well enough alone.  I have never had anyone complain about the 1801s lack of sound pressure ability after building them.  Most folks seem to convey little desire for the need of a subwoofer, and actually disconnect them.  I am in this group.  Obviously Randy, and a few others have chosen the subwoofer route.

//

Is anyone fond of a musical sub driver that has 89+ db sensitivity?
I've used the SCC300, so I'd be interested in improving on it, if possible.
Eton drivers look interesting, but I can't find much user feedback on those.

Unfortunately, there remains no TC sound solution for me too .  I keep hoping for that light cone 12" diver with an underhung motor.  I have almost lost hope.

The status quo in the realm of subwoofers is as Rick described.  Watts are cheap, and greater thermal compression is an esteemed compromise.  "Watts" sell woofers in power handling terms.  Big cabinets and high sensitivity remain the domain of those strange SET guys using old JBL drivers.  These guys do have the inside track on sensitivity.

My recommendation.... Build the 1801 (or something similar), and see if the SPL suits you.  If it doesn't, partition the cabinet leaving @ 15 liters in the top.  Place a subwoofer in the bottom.

Hmmm, also, if you built Randy's cabinets, have you hears Randy's system?  If you have, this should provide some direction regarding your perceived need for more bass.

But