Acoustic Treatment-Wall Panels As Artwork

kbuzz3 · « **on:** 18 Jul 2006, 03:55 pm »

I am trying address a highly sibilant room with lots of windows-which also doubles as a living room, play room and dining room here in NYC. (ahaaa the pleasures of Manhattan inches). Id like to try some wall treatment which wont get me divorced. In searching, I recently have come across two firms out of the UK who are doing wall panels with an artistic bent-exaclty what i would like to do. they are:

http://decorative-art-services.co.uk/Art%20Acoustics/Welcome.html

http://acousticartpanels.com/

The first ooks particularly compelling, I am not sure or pricing but shipping to the states will probably be cost prohibitive. Does anyone know if anyone is offering a similar arty acoustic panel here in the states. I am not a DIY and would not even try to attach fabric to say a gik panel. Thanks all for suggestions

fajimr · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Jul 2006, 04:13 pm »

kbuzz3

you did see that Glenn offers some nice fabric options for his GIK panels? Nothing like the prints you are looking at but depending on how many panels you are looking to install it might actually more aesthetically pleasing. http://www.gikacoustics.com/product_info.html

good luck

woodsyi · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Jul 2006, 05:00 pm »

Quote from: kbuzz3 on 18 Jul 2006, 03:55 pm

I am not a DIY and would not even try to attach fabric to say a gik panel. Thanks all for suggestions

Stapling upholstery fabric on GIK panel is about as easy as turning your hot water on. But if you got money to burn, you can order from the UK guys. I would rather send fabric to Glen or Ethan and have them put those on as they make their panels. Local upholstery fabric store remnants were like $4 a yard at 60" wide. You can even order hand painted replica art on canvas here. http://globalwholesaleart.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=33&osCsid=322ddf1c3e54f0afd43637369974c482
You may be able to get Glen to custom make panels with different paintings if you must have art.

Glenn K · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Jul 2006, 06:18 pm »

In the past have let customers send us fabric and we see if we can do it, but I always warn people that it really needs to be open celled fabric.
The big lesson we have learned is we do not quote the price until we see the fabric. Sometimes it is a snap, but sometimes it is a real bitch to work with. I do think the art idea is super cool and I am sure it is something we will look into in the future. It is the never ending fight to let the wife treat the room!!

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Jul 2006, 02:11 pm »

> Id like to try some wall treatment which wont get me divorced. <

This comes up often, and here's my take: The real problem with acoustic panels is not so much whether they're white or purple, or have plain or fancy fabric on them. The real issue is they are large and you need a bunch of them to truly tame a room. The good news is more and more people are using dedicated rooms where the look of a bunch of panels and traps is not a problem. But what I never understood is why the appearance of 6 foot tall towers speakers, plus a rack full of gear, plus a pair of monoblock toob amps on pedestals with cable elevators holding up garden hose size wire is okay, but acoustic panels are not okay.

--Ethan

woodsyi · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Jul 2006, 02:42 pm »

Quote from: Ethan Winer on 19 Jul 2006, 02:11 pm

> Id like to try some wall treatment which wont get me divorced. <

This comes up often, and here's my take: The real problem with acoustic panels is not so much whether they're white or purple, or have plain or fancy fabric on them. The real issue is they are large and you need a bunch of them to truly tame a room. The good news is more and more people are using dedicated rooms where the look of a bunch of panels and traps is not a problem. But what I never understood is why the appearance of 6 foot tall towers speakers, plus a rack full of gear, plus a pair of monoblock toob amps on pedestals with cable elevators holding up garden hose size wire is okay, but acoustic panels are not okay.

--Ethan

Hey,

I don't use cable lifters........

Double Ugly · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Jul 2006, 03:06 pm »

Quote from: Ethan Winer on 19 Jul 2006, 02:11 pm

But what I never understood is why the appearance of 6 foot tall towers speakers, plus a rack full of gear, plus a pair of monoblock toob amps on pedestals with cable elevators holding up garden hose size wire is okay, but acoustic panels are not okay.

--Ethan

Ummm...could it be because they're ugly to most people, and the other gear you mentioned usually isn't? Might the fact that "...you need a bunch of them to truly tame a room." have anything to do with it?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I expect you perceive your acoustic panels as being a lot more attractive than does my wife...especially when they're in bunches.

Carlman · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Jul 2006, 03:38 pm »

I've thought about this for a long time. I even considered getting some of my photography printed onto a Muslin, making a sepia-toned looking black and white image of say a violinist or other type of thing... I didn't think there was much of a market for it so I stopped working on it. One problem is size. My bass traps are 2' x 8' in the back of the room and 1' x 9'... making for some rather 'big statements' if you were to decorate them in any way.

I like the abstracts from your UK link. VERY nice work and I'd love to have some if they worked well.

The point Glenn makes about fabric choice is important. A painted canvas is very opaque. For bass traps, I would want to perforate it to allow for some absorption from the facing side. Some reflection is OK but too much is too much (in my experience). The wall-mounted images need to be especially absoptive otherwise they don't do much. So, a painted canvas would do nothing to help your ringing in my opinion.

Chalk painted onto white speaker cloth would be my first choice of options. If you bought some of Glenn's panels and just hired an artist to paint on them with chalk, that might work.

In the end, I bought fabric with a nice pattern that my wife liked. I have a ton of it in my room and it isn't 'pleasing' but it isn't too distracting or distasteful either. But it isn't just WAF, it's MY AF as well. I want to relax and enjoy my room... not look at a bunch of ugly unfinished junk on the walls.

-C

Double Ugly · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Jul 2006, 03:52 pm »

Quote from: Carlman on 19 Jul 2006, 03:38 pm

But it isn't just WAF, it's MY AF as well. I want to relax and enjoy my room... not look at a bunch of ugly unfinished junk on the walls.

Same here.

nathanm · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Jul 2006, 05:31 pm »

The success or failure of a room's aesthetics is entirely the result of the designer, not the ingredients themselves. Ethan's traps (or anyone elses for that matter), are basic geometric shapes in white black or taupe and can't really be considered "ugly" by themselves in my view. But in their stock form they lend themselves to a modern look and thus might look out of place if you've got an brown\woodsy\folksy thing going on. If the treatments aren't considered as part of the whole look then yeah, they will stick out. The more symmetrical and even the stuff is laid out the less objectionable it will be to the eye. I am sure that if you had a log cabin and put a stock black bass trap in there it would look weird. But cover it with your favorite Bob Ross landscape printed on fabric and a nice woody picture frame around it and it'll integrate just fine.

You either have to base your decor on the traps or make the traps work with the existing decor. It's going to take some effort either way.

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Jul 2006, 04:44 pm »

Nathan,

> You either have to base your decor on the traps or make the traps work with the existing decor. It's going to take some effort either way. <

With acoustic treatment you can have:

1. Effective
2. Attractive
3. Affordable

So pick any two, because you can't have all three at the same time!

I see magazine photos of high-end home theaters that look absolutely gorgeous. But behind those beautiful fabric walls are bass traps and other panels. (At least if the designers know what they're doing. Many do not and the rooms look great but sound awful. That's another story.)

THAT is the way to have effective acoustic treatment that also looks good. But you have to pay more for all the extra work and material. Guys, I'd love to design a small unobtrusive panel that absorbs well to very low frequencies. As soon as they repeal the laws of physics I promise I'll get right on it.

--Ethan

nathanm · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Jul 2006, 06:13 pm »

Yep. Good, Fast, Cheap: pick any two. That maxim works well in a lot of areas.

Not always easy to convince people of it, though. (especially one's boss at work!) Heh!

PhilNYC · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Jul 2006, 06:20 pm »

I wish someone made a bass trap that looked like a totem pole or something like that...

BobM · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Jul 2006, 08:58 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 20 Jul 2006, 06:20 pm

I wish someone made a bass trap that looked like a totem pole or something like that...

I'm sure Andy Warhol would have designed something that was phallyc in shape. It may not be effective (as a sound absorber or in any other way

) but it would definitely be considered "art" and cost as much or more than your audiophile grade speakers.

Enjoy,
Bob

PhilNYC · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Jul 2006, 09:08 pm »

Yes Bob, but if Warhol designed and built it, it would increase in value over time rather than decrease like most audio gear...

nathanm · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Jul 2006, 09:45 pm »

Good idea, Phil. Or a giant tiki bass trap would be way cool...

bpape · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Jul 2006, 02:43 am »

That's WAY too funny

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Jul 2006, 11:40 pm »

thanks everybody for responding. I got great info and a huge laaugh from the phil totem post. MMMMM wonder if totem speakers is jumping on that idea. Phil better see an intellectual property attorney asap.

Anyway just ran into asc's picture panel version. Looks like a great alternative to shipping from the UK. Plus i have rarely heard a negative about asc's tube traps. Heres a link for those so interested. If not, the other suggestions are as usual on this forum, informative helpful and sincere.

http://www.acousticsciences.com/clearance/picture-panel-flyer.pdf

[/url]http://www.acousticsciences.com/classroom/index-retrofit-classroom-acoustics.htm[url]

If anyone's interested I can post more info after i get some from asc this week.

launche · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Sep 2006, 11:27 pm »

reviving this thread for a moment.

I went to another fabric store today and found several colors of burlap (jute). I have seen burlap before but didn't pay much attention. Now i must say it's not perfect but it's actually a nice lokking fabric, especially when view from a few feet away, it can have a very refined look to it. I can cleary see how I can make this work for me. I bought a few yards, showed the Mrs. and she liked it so now I can hopefully start on some panels. But some of the posts I read gave me a bad impression of the burlap and I was running around trying to find alternatives, even ordered samples of that Guilford of Maine 701 stuff, when the burlap could've worked all along. I'm a natural fiber kinda guy anyway.

So I hope to get to work soon and I'll let you know how things turn out.

Now the store charged me 2.99 a yard on a 46" roll. Now since my wife chose a fabric at $12.99 a yard, the burlap seems cheap. I'm sure I can get a better price but I don't care to nickle and dime unless it's a big difference or a larger width. the color I got was "natural burlap" I figure I'll need about 10-15 yards. is there a great internet source out there?

thanks

DSK · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Sep 2006, 11:37 pm »

Quote from: launche on 13 Sep 2006, 11:27 pm

... But some of the posts I read gave me a bad impression of the burlap and I was running around trying to find alternatives...

If you mean acoustically - IIRC Jon Risch recommends the burlap on the outside of his cylindrical bass traps to allow the higher freqs to reach the layer of polyester batting underneath and be absorbed (the lower freqs continue through to the fiberglass in the middle). Jon suggests that cotton fabric is too reflective and that the burlap is the best he has found. I asked Jon about hessian but he advised against it.

If you mean aesthetically - all that matters is what you (And your missus) think.