[Wayner]

We fooled around with arm wraps in the 1980's. At that time, 3M had a tape which worked very well, dampening arm vibrations.

It worked wonders then, maybe I should try it again?

Has anyone tried this who can recommend materials?

I have. The trouble with this type of arm damping is that it is usually too much and while damping the arm, sucked all the life out of the cartridge.

I now put a small dot of plasticlay near the pivots on the arm tube. There are some arms that sound the best left alone, but The Dot seems to be the trick for most tables.

I also agree that a massive perch is the best for any table.

Wayner 

[Folsom]

My turntable sits on top of a piece of wood that has 4 inches of sand under it. The sand holder doesn't touch the piece the table sits on. I want to add a 5-10lb weight on top of the wood.

My next tweak is going to be a linear power supply instead of the wal-wart, for the motor. I've got an oversized unit that was put into an enclosure not long ago. It should maintain a perfect voltage and amperage given it is oversized. It is nicer than the boxes you can buy for your motors.

I am interested in using wood or cork to dampen the tone arm from the ring of metal.

[doug s.]

My turntable sits on top of a piece of wood that has 4 inches of sand under it. The sand holder doesn't touch the piece the table sits on. I want to add a 5-10lb weight on top of the wood.

My next tweak is going to be a linear power supply instead of the wal-wart, for the motor. I've got an oversized unit that was put into an enclosure not long ago. It should maintain a perfect voltage and amperage given it is oversized. It is nicer than the boxes you can buy for your motors.

I am interested in using wood or cork to dampen the tone arm from the ring of metal.

i don't have experience w/linear power supplies, but i did find a big improvement on my origin-live dc motor kit going to a lab-grade hewlett packard power supply sourced from ebay.  these things go cheap, if you are patient...

doug s.

[jimdgoulding]

If you will indulge me . . don't know where else to post this.  In addition to a Nottingham turntable, I have an Micro Seiki BL91 with a Sumiko Premier MMT arm and a Koetsu Black MC cartridge which has not been in use for a long time because it quit working properly, so I benched it and bought an interim table/arm/cart that I like, too: a Nottingham Horizon, an Expressimo modified Rega 250 arm, and a Grado Sonata Reference.  I knew that one day I would un-bench my MS and find out what had happened.  So, six years later??  Like I said, I liked my replacement table/arm/cart pretty good.  Back to the MS.  For some reason I couldn't get a enough current to amplify anything using my set up.  This week, after a lot of head scratching and heavy lifting there was something that needed to be re-connected and I took care of it.  I had done this before twice but overlooked that one thing.  I won't embarrass myself further.

The MS's platter is a monster and so is the deck.  So, after checking and re-checking everything- tracking angle, re-positioning the cartridge in the headshell for overhang and alignment- I give it a go and compare it to my Nottingham.  Now, to dial in the speed I used an opera recording cause I have misplaced my speed disc.  Opera singers tell me better than anything (and will you, too) sans a speed disc what is what.  Here goes . . the bearings in the Sumiko arm feel smooth as glass, much finer than those on my Rega 250.  The sound is silky smooth with more fine detail of higher harmonics giving strings and such a more sweeter and lilting quality.  Separation of instruments in mass is more evident.  I hear no mistracking whatsoever.  Cymbals have a lovely sheen to them by comparison.  The soundstage is wider and air, when it's in a recording, is more palbable.  Placement and size of instruments and vocals made in different locations is very similar to my Grado which is to say believably excellent.   Some of this you may expect because of the difference in cost.  I would, but, I had no idea of what to expect as this is the first comparision I have been able to make. 

Anyway, this is not meant as a review so much as it is to tell how happy I am.  I started trying to run down the problem with my MS, again, cause an acquaintence offered me a later model Koetsu Gold Line Black at a very reasonable price.  I was actually happy with my first generation Black as I remembered it (sigh), but thought highly of his offer.  I don't think I need to take him up on now it but it is to him I owe a bundle of thanks.

A newer head amp may be in the future.

Life is mo' better good. 

[doug s.]

interesting, jim.  but, in spite of the seemingly rougher bearings of the rega arm, i wonder if it's the deck and not the arm that's giving you the better sound. (or the cartridge?) i say this cuz i had a sumiko ft-3, which is supposed to be a little step up from the mmt.  and, replacing it w/an o-l modded rega rb250 was a step in the right direction.  (i might still have the ft-3 somewhere, i don't recall ever selling it.)  now, when i did the swap, there was no cartridge or turntable replacement; so in your case, it might be harder to tell, as you have different arm and cartridge, as well as a different deck.  but, i wonder how your rega arm would sound w/the koetsu on your micro-seiki?

doug s.

[jimdgoulding]

You could be right, Doug.  I was just trying to spell out the differences where I could.  You could tell that the pivot apparatus and/or bearings were quite different in each arm/pivot.  No doubt in my mind that you could, too.  More than one thing is making the end game better.  The MC cartridge, for example, costs way more than the Grado and their is a substantial difference in the decks.  Mass for one thing.  Cheers, Doug.     

[doug s.]

You could be right, Doug.  I was just trying to spell out the differences where I could.  You could tell that the pivot apparatus and/or bearings were quite different in each arm/pivot.  No doubt in my mind that you could, too.  More than one thing is making the end game better.  The MC cartridge, for example, costs way more than the Grado and their is a substantial difference in the decks.  Mass for one thing.  Cheers, Doug.   

yup, i am sure the cartridge is playing a huge role - years back, when my set-up was purely mid-fi, i got a big improvement putting an ortofon mm cartridge on a cheap plastic pioneer deck, which replaced the ubiquitous shure m91ed.  the $100 cartridge (which was a fortune to me, for a fono cartridge, back in the mid-70's) made an amazing difference...

doug s.

[neobop]

interesting, jim.  but, in spite of the seemingly rougher bearings of the rega arm, i wonder if it's the deck and not the arm that's giving you the better sound. (or the cartridge?) i say this cuz i had a sumiko ft-3, which is supposed to be a little step up from the mmt.  and, replacing it w/an o-l modded rega rb250 was a step in the right direction.  (i might still have the ft-3 somewhere, i don't recall ever selling it.)  now, when i did the swap, there was no cartridge or turntable replacement; so in your case, it might be harder to tell, as you have different arm and cartridge, as well as a different deck.  but, i wonder how your rega arm would sound w/the koetsu on your micro-seiki?
doug s.

It's all three.  A FT-3 isn't a step up from the MMT.  It's a little newer and lighter, but not better. The FT-3 was 1/2 decent, but not that well liked by many owners, sort of an arm you upgraded from.  The MMT is a poor man's FR-64. With a lower cu MC, it's really good. No doubt if the Rega had modified bearings it would be better, but I seriously doubt if it could compete with an MMT with a Koetsu. It's too light anyway, and with crap bearings.....

The Koetsu Goldline is a nice modernization of the classic Black.  That was a hugh upgrade IMO and that cart on a MMT is a great combination. The bass especially improved a lot. It went from too big and under defined boom, to bass that matched the rest.  With the Goldline you listen to a lush sweet sound with decent resolution and excellent imaging.

Put that combo on a heavier platter, "better" table, and you have a solid triple. Substitute any one of those parts for one of the old stuff, and you'll lose the magic.
neo

[jimdgoulding]

Neo, you have me re-interested in the Gold Line.  I'm not gonna tell you what I can buy it for.  Let's just see if I do.  And I believe I have a deck that qualifies as you've described.

[doug s.]

It's all three.  A FT-3 isn't a step up from the MMT.  It's a little newer and lighter, but not better. The FT-3 was 1/2 decent, but not that well liked by many owners, sort of an arm you upgraded from.  The MMT is a poor man's FR-64. With a lower cu MC, it's really good. No doubt if the Rega had modified bearings it would be better, but I seriously doubt if it could compete with an MMT with a Koetsu. It's too light anyway, and with crap bearings.....

The Koetsu Goldline is a nice modernization of the classic Black.  That was a hugh upgrade IMO and that cart on a MMT is a great combination. The bass especially improved a lot. It went from too big and under defined boom, to bass that matched the rest.  With the Goldline you listen to a lush sweet sound with decent resolution and excellent imaging.

Put that combo on a heavier platter, "better" table, and you have a solid triple. Substitute any one of those parts for one of the old stuff, and you'll lose the magic.
neo

notice i said the ft-3 is "supposed" to be a step up from the mmt.  it was sold as such, but some don't think it is.  i have never tried one, so i cannot say.

i don't know what expressimo does to the rega rb250, but the the o-l mods definitely include upgraded bearings.  according to o-l, cuz of the dual-bearing mount, an upgraded rb250 is even better than their upgraded rb900.  all i know is it was a definite improvement over the ft-3, which was still a decent arm, imo...

doug s.

[neobop]

Neo, you have me re-interested in the Gold Line.  I'm not gonna tell you what I can buy it for.  Let's just see if I do.  And I believe I have a deck that qualifies as you've described.

Working with what you have, I wouldn't think the Grado and MMT would be a good match. Even with the MMT pivot damping it's just too heavy and BaMorin said that Grados and Jelco made arms don't get along. 
The FT-3 may be better than what I indicated, but you have a Rega which would match up better with the Grado.  If you went the Audiomods route w/Rega, you'd probably be happy as a clam.  All it takes is money.

The Koetsus were always expensive carts.  I think the Goldline was $1500 or thereabouts when it came out in the '80s.  That's the entry level Koetsu.  Back then, $1K would get you a top dog cart, or close to it: Clearaudio Veritas, Benz, Genesis 1000.  When VDH came out with Grasshopper ('89?) I think it was $1700.  The Genesis 2000 was the same as the 1000 but w/gold wire coils and was $2K, same as the model # - marketing by Monster.
With the MMT you'd also get good results with a 103(D), and a whole lot of other lower cu carts, lower than a Grado that is.  The pivot damping gives it cart matching flexibility, but it's a little longer and heavier than a Jelco 750d. I don't know what your deal is with the Goldline, but given your taste in carts it might be a great move.
neo   

[jimdgoulding]

Thanks, Neo.  Actually, my Grado is on my Nottingham table with a Rega arm.  My Sumiko arm is on a Micro-Seiki BL91 fitted with an original Black.  That's where the Gold Line would go.  Will go.  My man with the Gold Line is in Brazil at the moment.  He just emailed me.  I will pounce on him when he returns.

[fsimms]

My VPI turntable wasn’t sounding as good as I remembered the last few months.  Finally the wow increased where I could hear it.  I pulled off my platter and found that the bearing was running dry.  I was confused about the bearing as I was thinking the well was in the base and hence was a cup that would always be full. That wasn’t the case.  It only lasted so long because I used good lithium grease.  The table sounds wonderful now!  Don’t be like me.  Lubricate the bearings once in a while.

Bob

[KCinSeattle]

For non-suspended turntables: Maple butcher block underneath.
 - for increased isolation I also recommend putting a layer or two of bubble wrap (large bubbles) between the maple butcher block and the rack shelf

Really curious about this as I'm a newbie in vinyl. Pretty clear that we want to isolate the TT from picking up external vibrations (e.g. speaker / room / air transmissions and mechanical vibration), so decoupling solutions or things that shift the vibration frequency (e.g. sandboxes, elastomeric feet, composite isolation shelves / heavy mass blocks) would work.

But what about coupling solutions? I see isolation tables that have spiked feet?

[lazydays]

I have now removed the thrust bearing on two turn tables and replaced them with grade 25 ceramic ball bearings. Not too much of an improvement, but the bearing will last a couple life times. I lubed the bearing with GN Paste right out of the tube. Then lubed the spindle with a high speed spindle oil from Sun Oil Company. This will have to be done once a year the way I figure it. There is a better oil, but have lost all my sources for it, and it's hard to come by unless your buying 20 gallons at a time.

I now use a Dacron/Silk blend thread to drive the platter. Will not stretch like fishing line or O rings. I've got two solid years on one string right now!
Now looking for copper foil
gary