Chicago audio club preamp session

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #20 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 05:58 pm »

Quote from: mrmusic on 28 Jun 2006, 05:12 am

Hello again all you audioheads. To be as clear as confusion will allow, we cannot take credit for any of the "not stellar performance" that occurred at the Chicago meeting. We were under the impression there was to be a comparison of preamps and sent a Revelation III and a prototype of a new version of the original SP100 buffered passive. The original SP100 was the industry's first buffered passive preamp and will sell for a lower price than the Revelation III. Both preamps arrived in fine condition, but the boys at the meeting apparently ran out of time. Although the Rev III we sent is on it's way to it's new owner, we would be happy to send another to any club or group meeting who wishes to conduct a multi-brand comparison. Perhaps the Los Angelenos can put something together and let us know what shakes out. For now, I will just say anytime, anywhere.

Chuck
SUPERPHON

How could they run out of time demoing one preamp with one set of speakers? Why bother having the event. What GR open baffle speakers were being used? What exactly was the objective of the event since nothing was being compared.

The whole thing sounds kind of 'dis-jointed' to me. Comments like "Not Stellar" by people who sell equipment from competing manufacturers doesn't quite sound "Koesher" either. But it does sound predictable.

I'll admit the comments I've read here are more bothersome to me than most. I've been waiting for months now on a Dodd pre amp and 50 watt mono's. and I'm also in the process of building a pair of MTMWW open baffles from GR. If all your comments are correct it appears I'm in for a major disappointment.

But I'd hate to think these are comments from people who are no more of an expert than I am though. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but without making a comparison to another pre-amp that was at your disposal and saying "don't believe the hype" is bewildering. I'm also surprised that one of Garys offerings would get such a lukewarm reception if everything he's designed in the past has been received with such high praise. Wasn't this supposed to be his flagship? Somethings not right here.

mfsoa · « **Reply #21 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 06:30 pm »

The "not stellar" was from an attendee.

I think there are many of us who would like a more complete description of this meeting, as the Dodd pre somehow made it on my all-time future dream team wish list before almost anyone had actually heard it.

As previously stated, maybe the MFGs could pipe up and add some clarification, especially with, at least what I percieved to be and fully bought into, all of the hype of this gear "destroying" other gear.

Audio hyperbole reality check time?

marvda1 · « **Reply #22 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 06:59 pm »

i don't see why they even mentioned it on this forum. it's hard to believe that at an audiophile meeting there was no reference system already there or that no one brought their favorite preamp to compare to the dodd, sounds a little like "jfk". we had dealer(s) and manufacturer(s) there and we can't get any information out of anyone that was there. i have heard the dodd with the mtmww open baffle and a vac power amp and it was some of the sweetest music i have ever heard. we did compare it to a first sound deluxe mk2 preamp. the cdp was a talk thunder 3.1b. just about everyone there preferred the sound of the open baffle,dodd,vac combo to the dodd,merlin vsm-mx,vac combo, from the start the dodd bested the first sound( in my opinion) and you(chicago) did no comparisons. give me a break.

Double Ugly · « **Reply #23 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 08:00 pm »

Quote from: mono-tubeleosis on 3 Jul 2006, 05:58 pm

I'm also surprised that one of Garys offerings would get such a lukewarm reception if everything he's designed in the past has been received with such high praise. Wasn't this supposed to be his flagship? Somethings not right here.

Because some in this forum believe something is stellar and heap "high praise" upon it doesn't necessarily make it so...at least not for everyone.

After I hear something I don't like, I don't feel compelled to come here or to any other site and express my opinion. Generally speaking, those type comments are best left to private discourse IMHO.

To date, *NO ONE* from the Chicago meeting has seen fit to wax poetic about what they heard. It seems clear to me why that is, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #24 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 08:40 pm »

"Not Stellar" did come from a dealer who does not deal Dodd. Again I'm all for freedom of speach but as this thread kept evolving the tone of the posts were heading toward the direction of 'Man Law' against the Dodd Pre. To each his own. On behalf of the Dodd constituency though I wanted to make my thoughts known that this so-called audio club has only the opinions of a couple of $5 attendees. The experts who put this session together didn't even take the time to side by side the SuperphonIII which was right there in the room. Maybe the $5 doods who bashed the Dodd never say anything good about anything and would have felt the Superphon was just as average or worse. My point is this was an exercise in futility. If you are going to make a comparison, then make a comparison using the same room, people, day etc. Making comments that it didn't sound as good as the equipment that was heard a month ago is pointless in my opinion.

The guy from Superphon would also have more credibility with me if he would have made some of these same observations. Instead his posts have an air about them similar to the guy who owned War Admiral when approached to go up against Seabisquit. "Any place, Any time". What's that supposed to mean. Don't forget the Dodd amp was there in all it's glory. The Superphon was mysteriously not reviewed even though it was right there in the room. Now isn't that strange.

mfsoa · « **Reply #25 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 08:58 pm »

Mono-t,
Sorry - You are right, I am wrong about the dealer comment.
Didn't do my research.

mrmusic · « **Reply #26 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 09:51 pm »

Let's try this again. We were not at the Chicago meeting in person, but did supply two (2) preamps to the club because we were (mistakenly is seems) under the impression there would be other products there and comparisons would be made. We have made the offer of a sample unit to clubs and groups before (on AC) and the "anytime, anywhere" statement is only to repeat that offer. High end audio has seen a decline in dealers across the USA and it is difficult for audiopiles to make these kinds of comparisons. Magazines have their own reasons for not doing the same, and that leaves groups and clubs the best remaining venue. We would have said nothing at all (like last time) had there not been some curiously bland postings regarding the meeting. We simply wanted to make sure that any AC readers knew that our preamps were, in fact, not used at this session. Obviously, we know that different listeners will have different preferences. It is because of this fact that side-by-side comparisons seem to be valuable. Our hope was that people who appreciated what our preamp(s) did best would explain their observations and the same would happen regarding other units under review. Readers would be left to relate the reports to their own experiences and hopefully get a better understanding of what each product has to offer. Believe me, we didn't send our products there hoping to NOT be heard. I hope this clears up any confusion regarding our position on group auditions.

Chuck Jones
SUPERPHON

JAMn Joe · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 10:52 pm »

mono-tubeleosis,

Before you start attacking the attendees comments about the amp, including the dealer (meaning me) who attended and voiced our opinions, you need to remember that you weren't there and the members of this forum that where interested in this event asked us to post our impressions/opinions!

I do not believe I made any personal attacks against Dodd nor did I try and hawk any of my offerings. My comments were consistent with the other people that attended and made comments on the event and I was not the first to post my comments. When I posted I was confirming the first posters statement.

Whether or not the group did an A/B comparison against the Superphon is absolutely irrelavant to what we heard from the setup that was there. Our comments about the sound where not related to a comparison but to what we heard at that meeting and most of us have had multiple listening sessions in that room to take that out of the equation. I personally have presented equipment there three times so I have a very good understanding of what that room does to the sound. We also used material that we are individually well aquainted with and in my case material I use all the time to evaluate equipment including equipment I decide to bring on as lines I carry.

On my behalf I was purposely evasive on what I heard because some of you might believe a dealer would have an agenda, even though I don't. Nor did I want to point fingers at anything in particular. That's for others to do if they so choose. Saying the performance was less than stellar leaves a lot of room for multiple reasons for things to not sound good. Your assumption that we are picking on the Dodd preamp exclusively leaves your intentions open for question. Also, attacking people for their not hearing things the way you think they should shows a bias on your part.

The fact that this setup on that day did not come together in a way that was stellar does not mean that it won't when setup in another system or with other equipment. It was stated the following day when some additional testing and comparing was done that with some upgraded $400 tubes in the Dodd that it performed admirably. Unfortunately, that is not what we heard as a total presentation during the meeting.

All we where doing was reporting back to those that had asked what we heard. You may not like the way things where done and you may not like the end result but if you don't want us to tell you how we felt it really sounded, then don't ask. By the way, the club doesn't normally do shoot outs between company's products. That's normally done outside of the club meetings. It wouldn't be fair to manufacturers that spend their money to come in and present their products to the group and it would show a lack of respect and appreciation for their effort. If we where to conduct ourselves in such a manner on a normal basis none of the manufacutures would want to come and present their gear. Why would we want to do that to ourselves. These types of shoot outs are best served in a rave group or other types of get togethers, not during manufacture presentations at the Audio Society meeting. In this case we had no manufacture present which may be why they originally decided to do a comparison, but for whatever reason that didn't take place. The people that I am aware of from the club that have posted their impressions, none had any control over the event or the way the equipment was presented including myself.

I hope I've tried to accurately state my case without being offensive. I can't say that your remarks did not spark a flame when you attack my integrity, but I am trying to respond in a manner that is not offensive. If I come across that way I apologize in advance.

WEEZ · « **Reply #28 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 11:28 pm »

This is the wierdest thread I've read on this website.

WEEZ

ZLS · « **Reply #29 on:** 3 Jul 2006, 11:31 pm »

Hello,

I am a member of the Chicago Audio Society and was present at the meeting where we listened to the Dodd PreAmp and Amp. The Superphon PreAmp did not survive the shipping; which everyone present understood that this reflected not at all on the Superphon and everything on the state of shipping companies.
I certainly know who Mr. Jurzek is, he certainly does not hide the fact that he is a dealer. I have asked Audio questions unrelated to products that he sells and he has always been most gracious and informative. I even own speakers from a line he no longer carries. Reasonable people can disagree, it does not mean that they are pushing an agenda.
I listened to the system present, the moderator even played a cut off of a CD that I brought. I prefer a system with more PRAT. The key words are I prefer.

Thank you for your time,

ZLS

mfsoa · « **Reply #30 on:** 4 Jul 2006, 12:32 am »

I was not at the meeting, so I cannot speculate as to why the other preamp(s) were not auditioned.
However, as far as the Superphon Revelation III goes, it is in my living room right now and works perfectly (and sounds great), so shipping damage was not the reason it was not auditioned. (Unless the shipping companies are making up for all of the audio horror stories and actually repairing the stuff in transit!!)

Let the weirdness continue...

marvda1 · « **Reply #31 on:** 4 Jul 2006, 12:33 am »

Jam, i was just wondering if there was a reference system(sound known to all there) where if the new system that was brought in did not seem to synergize maybe you could interchange the speakers or the preamp into the know system and then make your comments. plus i want to know all.... food, drink, laughs, a little something to make us feel like we were there.

marvin

rosconey · « **Reply #32 on:** 4 Jul 2006, 01:45 am »

this is without a doubt the most *ucked up and strange thread in the history of ac-

its ac's little soap opera-

on the next episode of "as the tube burns"

will domino dominion get a class a amp undamaged from exfed shipping-

can carmella analhoeski hide the affair she's having with ted sharpfinger at the audio store her husband erwin owns-

can erwin hide his affair with ted sharpfinger from his girlfriend domino-

stay tuned

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Jul 2006, 02:23 am »

Quote from: JAMn Joe on 3 Jul 2006, 10:52 pm

mono-tubeleosis,

Before you start attacking the attendees comments about the amp, including the dealer (meaning me) who attended and voiced our opinions, you need to remember that you weren't there and the members of this forum that where interested in this event asked us to post our impressions/opinions!

I do not believe I made any personal attacks against Dodd nor did I try and hawk any of my offerings. My comments were consistent with the other people that attended and made comments on the event and I was not the first to post my comments. When I posted I was confirming the first posters statement.

Whether or not the group did an A/B comparison against the Superphon is absolutely irrelavant to what we heard from the setup that was there. Our comments about the sound where not related to a comparison but to what we heard at that meeting and most of us have had multiple listening sessions in that room to take that out of the equation. I personally have presented equipment there three times so I have a very good understanding of what that room does to the sound. We also used material that we are individually well aquainted with and in my case material I use all the time to evaluate equipment including equipment I decide to bring on as lines I carry.

On my behalf I was purposely evasive on what I heard because some of you might believe a dealer would have an agenda, even though I don't. Nor did I want to point fingers at anything in particular. That's for others to do if they so choose. Saying the performance was less than stellar leaves a lot of room for multiple reasons for things to not sound good. Your assumption that we are picking on the Dodd preamp exclusively leaves your intentions open for question. Also, attacking people for their not hearing things the way you think they should shows a bias on your part.

The fact that this setup on that day did not come together in a way that was stellar does not mean that it won't when setup in another system or with other equipment. It was stated the following day when some additional testing and comparing was done that with some upgraded $400 tubes in the Dodd that it performed admirably. Unfortunately, that is not what we heard as a total presentation during the meeting.

All we where doing was reporting back to those that had asked what we heard. You may not like the way things where done and you may not like the end result but if you don't want us to tell you how we felt it really sounded, then don't ask. By the way, the club doesn't normally do shoot outs between company's products. That's normally done outside of the club meetings. It wouldn't be fair to manufacturers that spend their money to come in and present their products to the group and it would show a lack of respect and appreciation for their effort. If we where to conduct ourselves in such a manner on a normal basis none of the manufacutures would want to come and present their gear. Why would we want to do that to ourselves. These types of shoot outs are best served in a rave group or other types of get togethers, not during manufacture presentations at the Audio Society meeting. In this case we had no manufacture present which may be why they originally decided to do a comparison, but for whatever reason that didn't take place. The people that I am aware of from the club that have posted their impressions, none had any control over the event or the way the equipment was presented including myself.

I hope I've tried to accurately state my case without being offensive. I can't say that your remarks did not spark a flame when you attack my integrity, but I am trying to respond in a manner that is not offensive. If I come across that way I apologize in advance.

First of all, I never asked you for any opinions on anything. I merely commented on them.

Second, I never attacked you or said you were biased. Out of the goodness of my heart I wanted to make sure that the people hearing your comments were aware that you were a dealer and your products did not include any of the Dodd or GR Research offerings. I'm sure you felt the same way and were compelled to point out the "not stellar" comment of your attendee.

Third, I never questioned your motives. I questioned your (and The Chicago Audio Clubs) methods.
What was the point (or logic) in just giving us an un-biased (even though you're not a dealer of these products) review of the GR/Dodd dudds when you had a golden opportunity to COMPARE it to the most logical measuring stick you could of had in the Superphon. Oh! I'm sorry it was broke--------no it wasn't----it was fine-------no the shippers fixed it. No it's a BIRD, it's a PLANE, IT"S SUPERPHON!!!

Give me a break. The only guy who knows the amp is O.K. is the one who has it in his possession now.
MRSOA. And I hope you are enjoying your amp sir. I've never heard it myself but, I heard it is real good!!!! Happy listening. I heard mine did 'admirably' too. I might just give it a little pat on the head when it gets here.

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Jul 2006, 02:58 am »

O.K. perhaps I went too far and for that I apologize. It's just that sometimes I hear these opinions good or bad and there seems to be no real measuring stick to quantify any of these opinions. taste is taste and fact is fact. I would have loved to hear how it stacked up to the Superphon. I hear great things about it.

Anyway I wasn't trying to fire up anyone in particular and I wasn't trying to incite a riot either. I wish I could have heard the amp myself. I'm from the area (Hoffman Est.) and I go home about once a month. Next time I'm in town you can take me to Portillos and kick my ass.

Larry

gstraley · « **Reply #35 on:** 4 Jul 2006, 05:45 am »

First off I would like to Thank Gary Dodd and Danny Richie for sending us their equipment for our meeting. I would also like to Thank Steve "alotaklipsch" for letting us borrow his Dodd 120 monoblocks, APL modified Dennon and some really expensive power cords by Purist Audio at the last minute. After reading a lot of wrong information I feel compelled to set the story straight. First off what was damaged in shipping was one of the monoblocks. Not any of the preamps. That is why Steve let us borrow his pair.

This is what equipment we were using at the meeting.

1) Dodd 120 monoblocks with rolled tubes.
2) New Dodd battery powered preamp with factory tubes.
3) Dodd 800 watt balanced power conditioner
4) APL modified Dennon cd player with rolled tubes.
5) G R Research open baffle speakers. Smaller version
6) 3 power cords from Purist Audio feeding the monoblocks and the APL cdp.
7) 1 Harmonic Tech power cord feeding the power conditioner.

Reality Cables limited availability interconnects
9) Reality Cables speaker cables

There was some miscommunication between Superphon and myself regarding the use of their Rev III preamp at our meeting. I was under the impression that I would listen to both of their preamps with some friends from the club at my place and let them know how they compared. I guess that they thought that we were going to do a comparison at the meeting. This was always only going to be a Dodd / G R Research meeting.
There was some comments about the system not sounding stellar. I will say that the amps had really expensive NOS tubes in them that were "tweaked" to Steve's system. He has the Epiphany 12/12 speakers. There may have been better tubes we could have used for this system but this was a last minute thing and did not have the time to roll tubes nor did I have access to the stock factory tubes. I am just thank full that we were able to borrow them at the last minute. I also set up the room along the long wall which is 90 degrees from our usual location. Normally our June meeting, because of summer time has less attendance than winter months. This other set up location has only ever been used twice before. The last time was well over a year ago. I thought that we were not going to have as good of a turn out as we did. The other location is better for more people. A good number of people had to sit to the outside of the speakers which is not an ideal listening setup. Sorry. Thanks to everybody that attended. I also would like to thank MarkR for picking up (and returning) the equipment from Steve and helping me set up.
I heard comments from some of the guys that I had talked to at the break that the sound was "better than usual" and "sounding good".
For those that are demanding a side by side comparison with the 2 killer preamps, all that I will say is that both preamps are amongst the best preamps that money can buy. They both are in the same calibur as each other.
I still am not quite sure how someone can hear a system that they are not familiar with and determine that the preamp must not be that good. Or just because the system was not "stellar" determine that it was because of the preamp. That makes no sense to me unless you are familar with that room and every piece of gear used.

Gregg

I do not know why the face is coming up where the #8 should be?

Brian Walsh · « **Reply #36 on:** 4 Jul 2006, 05:09 pm »

I attended the meeting, too, and agree with the comments about the sound being less than stellar - and yes, I'm a dealer but I also have an opinion which I hope doesn't offend anyone. Not being familiar with the equipment, I can't, nor should, fault anything in particular. If anything I would say the sound was somewhat hifi-ish and grainy in character, with an edge and glare as the volume was turned up.

It's too bad the Superphon preamp wasn't demonstrated, even though as Gregg says the Dodd components were featured. Misunderstandings can and do arise.

I wish to thank Gregg for doing a fine job of running the demo and taking the time to set up. And thanks to MarkR for helping out quite a bit as well.

ehider · « **Reply #37 on:** 5 Jul 2006, 11:34 am »

O.K. guys, chew on this fact about the listening room that is used for the Chicago Audio Society get togethers:

Unfortunately, this room is an total sonic disaster when it comes to doing critical evaluations of audiophile gear. I've heard some very fine products just sound fairly miserable in that room

I think people should realize that the Chicago Audio Society uses this room for a meeting of audiophiles to rejoice in new ideas and products and does not advocate it as a proper forum to evaluate anything. If I am not mistaken, this room is more of a convenience for them and NOT a "chosen" audiophile venue for it's sound qualities!

For example; a couple years ago I heard one of the Society member's speaker system fall so short of their capability in that room that many audiophiles were whispering to me about how bad they were. (Those are damn good speakers too IMHO, probably one of the 10 best speakers in the world under $10k IMHO.) Yet that room destroyed what they could do!

Just one man's experience mind you. But I stand by my experience with how that room is not capable of showing the majesty of any fine audio gear

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #38 on:** 5 Jul 2006, 05:33 pm »

Quote from: ehider on 5 Jul 2006, 11:34 am

O.K. guys, chew on this fact about the listening room that is used for the Chicago Audio Society get togethers:

Unfortunately, this room is an total sonic disaster when it comes to doing critical evaluations of audiophile gear. I've heard some very fine products just sound fairly miserable in that room I think people should realize that the Chicago Audio Society uses this room for a meeting of audiophiles to rejoice in new ideas and products and does not advocate it as a proper forum to evaluate anything. If I am not mistaken, this room is more of a convenience for them and NOT a "chosen" audiophile venue for it's sound qualities!

For example; a couple years ago I heard one of the Society member's speaker system fall so short of their capability in that room that many audiophiles were whispering to me about how bad they were. (Those are damn good speakers too IMHO, probably one of the 10 best speakers in the world under $10k IMHO.) Yet that room destroyed what they could do!

Just one man's experience mind you. But I stand by my experience with how that room is not capable of showing the majesty of any fine audio gear

Thanks for the info. I'm just going to start disregarding some of these CAC comments. Way too many things here to lament over. Now comments are coming in that it didn't even sound like 'stereo'. There had to be something wrong. I have heard comments in the past with some of GR's speakers sounding 'too forward' in the wrong room. Maybe that was it. Who knows. I've yet to read any comments about the soundstage, Imaging, etc.

I also read things about Dodd amps needing at least 200 to 300 hours to burn in. One owner commented that he wanted to jump out of his apartment window the first week he had his amps. After two or three weeks the sound was sensational. Gary says his amps require a long burn-in. Maybe the demo wasn't there yet. That's why I wish they would have listened to the Superphon too. If there was something wrong with the room, they would have gotten a better read on the situation IMHO. Anyway something had to be wrong somewhere. I've had GR speakers for years now and none of these comments would describe the sound I'm hearing in my room. Can't speak for Garys stuff yet but I'll be finding out soon.

marvda1 · « **Reply #39 on:** 5 Jul 2006, 05:53 pm »

i think this is the only working model out there so it is well burned in. ask gary.