[rblnr]

to go w/my VTL 5.5 preamp and Cary 303/200 CD player w/an SB2 going into its digital input.

Speakers must be bookshelf sized.  Have some Zu Tones in house on audition now, and am looking for alternatives to compare, as well as amps.

I plan on adding a VPI turntable down the road.

Thanks all.

[John Casler]

to go w/my VTL 5.5 preamp and Cary 303/200 CD player w/an SB2 going into its digital input.

Speakers must be bookshelf sized.  Have some Zu Tones in house on audition now, and am looking for alternatives to compare, as well as amps.

I plan on adding a VPI turntable down the road.

Thanks all.

Maybe borrow Joe's Piano Black 626R's until his stands arrive, and help him break them in.

Seems his Skylan stands got delayed,   so you probably have almost a week.

[rblnr]

Hey John,

Will be checking out Joe's speakers soon and helping w/setup, but for myself, am looking for a different flavor in my living room system vs. my VMPS big rig in the basement.  

You may predict relative disappointment wherever I land -- and you may be right  

[rblnr]

First and only bump:


Any other recs. out there?  Thanks.

[jermmd]

The Dodd 120 watt monoblocks are getting a lot of praise but that might be overkill. I'd like to try them out myself. Maybe we could have a group buy at the original introductory pricing. I suppose this is wishful thinking.
At your budget, there's a lot out there. I don't have a lot of experience with bookshelf speakers but a friend has a pair of Dynaudio's that are exceptional. I don't remember the model number but I think it's something like 1.3's.

[marvda1]

Dodd does make 50 watt monoblocks.

[lonewolfny42]

You might send Bill Baker a PM and see what he has on hand.....

[Gordy]

Be sure to check these out as well... http://www.salksound.com/HT1.html

[Bob Reynolds]

You obviously like tubes, but you can save quite a bit of cash by skipping the tube amp completely. Your Cary player and VTL preamp have balanced connections, so whatever you choose it would be better if it were balanced.

The M&K 2510PK retail for $2400 each, but can be had at discount through pro audio dealers. PM me and I can give you the name of an excellent dealer. Note the speaker is biamped internally. So, for $2400 you get an amazing speaker plus two amplifiers plus bass management.

http://www.mkprofessional.com/mps2510.htm

The beauty of the 2510PK is that it has builtin bass management for 2-channel, so adding a subwoofer later is a snap. You can spend a lot more money and not come anywhere near the performance of an M&K speaker system.

Of course, if you're looking for a speaker that adds its own signature to each recording, then M&K is not for you.

BTW, you might enjoy reading this about bass management
http://www.mkprofessional.com/bass_mgmt.htm

Good luck,

Bob

[dado5]

Since you have a tube pre already, you may want to stick with lower efficency speakers. High eff models coupled with the high gain of an all tube system equals no volume control range and high noise levels.

If you want to stay with higher eff speakers,  you will want SETs or DHT PP to minimize the above gain problem. Since bookshelf  units are not going to have the sensitivty needed to work with a typical 2A3/300B SET, you have to think out of the box.


Lower eff route:

Rogue Audio Stereo 90

speakers-Epos M12, Gresham X-1, Harbeth M30, Totem model 1/ Mani 2


Higher eff route:

DHT PP- Canary Audio 301

Dual SET- Art Audio Gill

Uber SET - Art Audio Carissa

Speaker - reference 3A DeCappo, Coincident Triumph, Triangle Titus/Comte, Zu, Omega

[JLM]

Tough assignment.

Don't know what kind of sound you're after, but apparently something different than VMPS.

The only synergy I see here is typical lack of tube amp bass output and small speakers that will lack bass anyway.

Your budget IMO is beyond what's needed for a 2nd system.  Sure you can spend that much, but why?  The obvious solution would involve some sort of monster amp with very inefficient speakers.  But that would generate heat, lots of tube replacements, and most probably lack dynamics.

[Inscrutable]

While none of the following spealker recommendations are tiny-SET friendly, you have enough budget for a heftier amp.

I have a friend/member with Merlin TSM-MM driven with a Cary V-12 that sound great.  I've heard Ref 3A Royal Virtuoso driven by inexpensive SS .. good tubes would sound much better.  A member has SP Timepieces on trial, he loves them, I hope to hear them soon.  I've not heard them, but I've seen/heard so many good things about Harbeth I may have to try them (probably teh Super HL5) next time out. Finally, if you decide to not use most of your budget, ProAc 1SC always sound good to me and you could buy a couple hundred new CD's to enjoy, or go ahead and get that turntable now ... that will give you plenty to obsess over for a while.  

[woodsyi]

We have similar main system and you are looking for tube amp and speakers for a second system.  It so happens that I just did that too.  Only it's bedroom for me.  I wanted to keep it simple and the speakers had to be monitor size as well.  I ended up with speakers just a wee bit bigger than your typical monitors: http://www.responseaudio.com/bellaSPAV1main.htm

I went with an integrated to keep things simple.  http://stereophile.com/integratedamps/310/  I run them with cryoed Kuhl GE 6550s.  

I use a Bolder modified SB2 running analog out.  

I don't know the Zu sound but this combination is very good -- very intimate and engaging with strings and woodwind to die for.  Of course they are good with vocals -- that is my absolute requirement.   The accuracy and PRAT on these speakers are frightening and the tubes really help.

[rblnr]

sorry -- this was meant to be a PM

[rblnr]

Thanks for all the info. everyone.  I'll look into the suggestions.

A bit about my tastes, particularly given that the speakers won't be ideally placed:  I value dynamics and transparency over, say, imaging.   The first thing I notice is what I think of as 'organic flow', which roughly transalates into dynamics, timing and dimension (not soundstage).  Speakers I've owned and liked that immediately get this include Epos and VMPS.  The Zu Tones I have on demo now have this kind of ease, but 'may' lack a slight bit of transparency to my ears, though am by no means sure on this yet -- need to spend a little more time w/them.  They are certainly a different presentation from my VMPS system.

Versus my main system which is Meridian-based, I'm looking to create a very different, tube-based signal path, that will eventually have pure analog capability when I add a turntable.  Been meaning to pull out my old records for years; got pushed over the edge at the VTV show in NJ last month -- the vinyl rooms almost all sounded better than those digitally based.  Heard a VPI TT into VAS amps and Aurum Cantus speakers that was extremely good for the $$.

Will likely add a sub to whatever I wind up with.

And BTW, am very happy to spend less than 7K, but this is a system that I plan to set and leave alone for many years (really!), so if some extra dollars gets me a real leap in SQ, I'm willing.

[Marbles]

Salk HT1's, but they are about 85 or 86 DB effecient.

Merlins as mentioned above would be great.

[dado5]

.....  Speakers I've owned and liked that immediately get this include Epos and VMPS......  

I listed them first in the post because they are indeed excellent! They are a great match with the Rogue amp (heard it myself) and they hold much of their good qualities with both tube or SS amps.  Don't be put off by the low price, these and the 3A mm deCappos are my top recommendations (we have similar listening priorities).

If you could transcend the stand mount and are willing to leave the tube pre out, you could go with a 300B/2A3 SET and Lowthers. This is the ultimate in getting the timing and toe-tappiness right. They need big boxes though...I like the Beauhorn the best out of the Lowther designs I have heard so far (BTW that's where the Border Patrol recommendation comes from...Magic with the Beauhorn!)

[woodsyi]

Hi,

Thanks for you post on my ? about speakers and amps.  Had a question for you about your RM40s -- did you add the waveguide to existing 40s are where they part of your original purchase?  

Have had 40s for a few years and am debating purchasing the CDWGs as an add-on; wondering if you thought it was worthwhile.

BTW, the Bella's are probably just a bit too big for where I want to place them, but we'll see.

Best,

Bob

Bob,

I added CDWG to an existing pair.  They are a field production model that won't win any beauty contests but works quite well as advertised.  They will be replaced with a (MLS?) hardwood model later.   Once I replaced the passives, dehorned the tweeter, adjusted the pots and putty  to my liking, I began to hear considerable improvement.  You may have to treat your side reflection points if you haven't already to hear a big difference.   You still have a sweet spot but the off axis sound is so much better.  I know because I am usually on the floor playing with my 4 year old daughter as I listen.  I also hear more defined and deeper soundstage.

[Bob Reynolds]

Will likely add a sub to whatever I wind up with.

Planning for the sub addition up front is well worth the effort. Others may disagree, but I've found that running the sub parallel is *not* the best way to integrate it. It's amazing how much better the entire frequency range becomes with a properly setup sub. Best investment I've ever made in my system.

-- Bob

[Robert57]

Will likely add a sub to whatever I wind up with.

Planning for the sub addition up front is well worth the effort. Others may disagree, but I've found that running the sub parallel is *not* the best way to integrate it. It's amazing how much better the entire frequency range becomes with a properly setup sub. Best investment I've ever made in my system.

-- Bob

Bob, for those of us with an integrated with no pre outs, I suppose we are stuck with parallel connections to a sub (off the speaker posts). Could you please elaborate--what have you found to be the better approach for connecting a sub that dramatically improves the integration? Using a second pre out from a preamp? I have actually gotten pretty good results by driving my sub in parallel off the speakers posts of my integrated, but haven't had the luxury of using a pre-out. REL generally has recommended this speaker post connection, but they are probably unusual in that respect.

Thanks.

Rob