What are CIAudio's plans for hard drive digital playback?

mfsoa · « **on:** 5 May 2006, 01:43 am »

Hi Dusty,
Just curious as to what CIA's future plans are (and maybe your personal take) for what seems to be the rising tide of hard-drive based music storage?
I can think of a few broad scenarios:
1) We have some killer product (USB DAC etc) in the pipeline
2) We're taking a wait-and-see for now, to see what direction this is all heading
3) We're just not gonna go there - there will be enough USB-SPDIF(?) converters to feed our DACs
4) The hype about hard-drive audio quality is overblown and does not represent an improvement in sound quality at this time.

I know you are busy with a preamp, but it seems like now might be the time to jump on the PC bandwagon. I don't know.

Any thoughts or opinions, personally or professionally? I am at a digital source crossroads and am trying to peer into the future a little! I don't think I've sen anyone say that they went hard-drive and are longing for the quality and convenience of their old one or two-box gear.

Thanks, Dusty

CIAudio · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 May 2006, 03:10 am »

Quote

Just curious as to what CIA's future plans are (and maybe your personal take) for what seems to be the rising tide of hard-drive based music storage?
I can think of a few broad scenarios:
1) We have some killer product (USB DAC etc) in the pipeline
2) We're taking a wait-and-see for now, to see what direction this is all heading
3) We're just not gonna go there - there will be enough USB-SPDIF(?) converters to feed our DACs
4) The hype about hard-drive audio quality is overblown and does not represent an improvement in sound quality at this time.

We don't have any plans to make a computer based playback system at this time, although I do think that is the future. USB is convenient, but not a good way for transferring audio data (at least not at this point).

If you go the computer route, I'd use a soundcard with a good SPDIF output or I2S. I've thought of making an I2S output soundcard, but I already have several other products in the works (more than enough to keep me busy the rest of the year).

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 May 2006, 03:44 pm »

Quote from: CIAudio

...but I already have several other products in the works (more than enough to keep me busy the rest of the year).

Thanks for the reply dusty. As noted in one of my other posts, if one of those products is a stereo amp- im willing to purchase it NOw Unheard and unseen!

LOL

Keep up the interesting work

BradJudy · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 May 2006, 04:17 pm »

Quote from: CIAudio

USB is convenient, but not a good way for transferring audio data (at least not at this point).

If you go the computer route, I'd use a soundcard with a good SPDIF output or I2S. I've thought of making an I2S output soundcard, but I already have several other products in the works (more than enough to keep me busy the rest of the year).

Dusty, your statement about USB confuses me. How is USB a worse interface for a soundcard than say PCI? I assume you meant a PCI card when you mentioned building your own soundcard since you said you didn't like USB for audio.

CIAudio · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 May 2006, 05:56 pm »

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Dusty, your statement about USB confuses me. How is USB a worse interface for a soundcard than say PCI? I assume you meant a PCI card when you mentioned building your own soundcard since you said you didn't like USB for audio.

We're talking about the cards digital output to an external DAC...not the soundcard interface to the computer.

CIAudio · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 May 2006, 05:50 am »

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As noted in one of my other posts, if one of those products is a stereo amp- im willing to purchase it NOw Unheard and unseen!

We do have plans for a remote controlled integrated amplifier later this year

BradJudy · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 May 2006, 02:07 pm »

Quote from: CIAudio

We're talking about the cards digital output to an external DAC...not the soundcard interface to the computer.

If a DAC has a USB interface, it is the soundcard and the USB is the soundcard's interface to the computer.

CIAudio · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 May 2006, 02:49 pm »

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If a DAC has a USB interface, it is the soundcard and the USB is the soundcard's interface to the computer.

Yes, this correct. My point was...whether the soundcard is PCI or not has no relevance. The majority of DACs with USB input, convert the USB to SPDIF, which will generally have worse performance than a soundcard with an SPDIF output.

BradJudy · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 May 2006, 09:57 pm »

Quote from: CIAudio

The majority of DACs with USB input, convert the USB to SPDIF, which will generally have worse performance than a soundcard with an SPDIF output.

I guess this is where I'm confused. A soundcard has to convert data into SPDIF to output it too - how is the SPDIF signal generated by a soundcard any better than that generated by the chip in a USB capable DAC? It seems that, if anything, it would come down to the chips/implementation in the specific soundcard and DAC rather than something that can be generalized to all USB DACs. Am I missing something?

CIAudio · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 May 2006, 11:45 pm »

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I guess this is where I'm confused. A soundcard has to convert data into SPDIF to output it too - how is the SPDIF signal generated by a soundcard any better than that generated by the chip in a USB capable DAC? It seems that, if anything, it would come down to the chips/implementation in the specific soundcard and DAC rather than something that can be generalized to all USB DACs. Am I missing something?

The IC's currenty available that convert USB to SPDIF are of poor performance (aimed at the PC market). The jitter content will be higher in most any DAC through the USB input. In my original reply, notice the line (at least not at this point) ...I assume there will be better chips available in the future, but I'm told by BB they are not working on anything in the near future to address this.

BradJudy · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 May 2006, 11:54 pm »

I get ya now, Dusty. Have you tried playing with the chips that do USB to i2s? If so, does their i2s output seem any better than their SPDIF output? I know TI has one and I thought someone else did too, but I don't recall now.

CIAudio · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 May 2006, 03:53 am »

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I get ya now, Dusty. Have you tried playing with the chips that do USB to i2s? If so, does their i2s output seem any better than their SPDIF output? I know TI has one and I thought someone else did too, but I don't recall now.

TI(BurrBrown) makes two parts I know of with I2S output (I don't know of any others) but are part of inexpensive DAC IC's, which only support up to 48k...products based on these parts have been mediocre.

I'd rather have a soundcard with I2S that offers better performance and supports up to 192k. I2S will always be better because the clocks/data are never imbedded into an SPDIF, then recovered by an input receiver.