The Altman Attraction DAC

bumcat · « **Reply #60 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 03:19 am »

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, but found it looking for information on the Attraction DAC. I was intrigued by the design and battery power. I am looking at a new CDP or a new DAC to go with my older CDP (with toslink out). Currently I'm using an old (ancient) MSB Link-DAC from about 1999. It's served me well, but I've not listened to anything else in many years (kids starting college...money drain, etc).

After having not upgraded anything in years I took the plunge last summer and built the Wellborne Ultrapath preamp - which uses a single triode gain stage and transformer coupled output. This unit is unusual in that it uses battery power for both filament (6v) and B+ supply (24v). In short, I find it's sound glorious. It is organic, rich and full sounding. The detail simply flows naturally out of the thing and draws you into the music. I don't know if it's the battery supply or not, but to me it seems that with very low level signals the purity of battery supply could be a major factor.

So, based on my experience with the Ultrapath I am very interested in the Altmann DAC. Like another poster I have been urged (by Bobby P at Merlin) to audition the Audio Aero Prima CDP. I'd be curious regarding any other comments how the Attraction compares to this unit.

For reference my system is: Welborne Ultrapath pre, Atma-Sphere M-60, mk II OTL amps, Merlin VSM-SE speakers, Well tempered/Eminent Technology analog front end, and currently the MSB Link-DAC with a cheap CDP/toslink.

Great forum. Thanks for the ideas and discussion.

Brad · « **Reply #61 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 03:38 pm »

Welcome to AC bumcat!

I think the Altmann would be a nice fit with your system.
I really like the combination of equipment you've put together - love the Well Tempered and the Ultrapath and the OTL amps (and the Merlins)

dburna · « **Reply #62 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 04:32 pm »

Bumcat, I second Brad's take on things -- you have a really nice set of equipment that has known terrific synergy (many people attest to same). I can see why you haven't made any changes of late....'cause you don't *NEED* to. aa

I'm in the process of getting an Altmann, so I can't speak to its sound directly, but the DAC is about the only part of your system I would think about upgrading. Unless you're going to up-the-ante on your expenditures a lot, I doubt that you'll realize significantly better sound. Just my opinion, of course.

Altmann is supposed to be (according to feedback from others) a good performer in its price range. Other options might include an Audio Mirror or Reimyo DAC if you can find one used. I doubt you'll be disappointed if you go with the Altmann, however. Then I would just sit back, listen, and maybe think of upgrading something else in your system in, say, another 10 years perhaps.

Best, -dB

miklorsmith · « **Reply #63 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 11:23 pm »

Mine just showed up! Paid October 19, delivered November 2. Not bad, eh?

mca · « **Reply #64 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 11:55 pm »

Did you get that big old red top yet? Can't wait to hear what you think!

miklorsmith · « **Reply #65 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 11:57 pm »

No. I opted for a more sane-sized one.

You're free to come over for a listen some time soon - maybe this w/e.

navi · « **Reply #66 on:** 7 Nov 2006, 05:52 am »

Had a listen to the Altmann DAC today- it was pretty good but imaging wasn't as precise as I would like it- (I've heard better)
But it had a naturalness to vocals and classical recordings that I have only heard with DCS gear.

Ivan.

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #67 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 02:13 pm »

The AA DAC has been here for 3 weeks, and I almost forgot about whether it's broken in or not. Last night I listened to tracks from "A GRP Christmas Collection", "Christmas" and "Fresh Air Christmas" (the latter two CDs by Mannheim Steamroller). The incredible speed and true timbre rendering of the DAC let me hear music flowing, not necessarily directly from the BB FTA-2000 speakers, but from the space behind, in front, above, beyond, and around them. That was for the first time I could truly enjoy the sound of Xmas music played in jazz style (1st CD) and new age style & instrumentation (last 2 CDs). Needless to say, I'll be running to Amazon to get some more CDs of those artists.

BTW, I've always thought of those CDs as either "over-fat" sounding (GRP disc) or thin sounding (last 2 discs). As for last night experience, they were just right: vivid, spacious, fast, 3-D, and tonal correct. Pianos, whether acoustic or sampled, sounded beautifully: not too fat not too lean, just brilliant and with precise attacks, ample decays and ambience. Plucked instruments were a real treat, too: reminded me of what Jeff (from San Francisco) said, "You can hear not only the notes, but also the rear and front of the notes".

Rob S. · « **Reply #68 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 03:06 pm »

Does anyone know if there's any type of trial period with this DAC? like 30 day or so? I'd love to audion it, anyone heard the Altman Vs. the AVA ULtra DAC? Anyone care to share differences besides OS vs NOS?

Thanks,

Rob S.

95bcwh · « **Reply #69 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: Rob S. on 13 Nov 2006, 03:06 pm

Anyone care to share differences besides OS vs NOS?

Below is extract from enjoythemusic.com review of MDHT Paradisea DAC, which answer your question about OS vs NOS, full article see:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0406/mhdt_laboratory_dac.htm

*********************************************************************
A Non-Statement About Digital Sampling Rates

In the realm of digital to analog conversion, there are hugely differing opinions as to which method of conversion sounds the best. We have non-oversampling (as is the case with the Mhdt Labs DAC's), we have oversampling and we have upsampling (notice I left out SACD as I'm only speaking of Redbook).

The camps out there will each defend their chosen sampling procedures to the death (if need be). I've found that each of them can sound quite good when done well or quite bad when done poorly. In my case, I've got the AH! Njoe Tjoeb which allows me to use the stock output of the Philips TDA 1545 along with the OPA2604 (or the AD 826) opamp or I can drop in the 24/192 upsampling board if I so desire.

As for my preference in sampling rates, I like them both, but I vacillate. I'll go for a while listening to the stock, NOS chip and then I'll get a wild hair and install the upsampling board and listen to it for a few months. Then I get bored and yank the board back out for something different. As you can tell, I really don't have a preference. I sort of sway with the prevailing winds. I just like the breeze.

When it comes to the sonic differences between the two sampling rates, hopefully I can explain them without causing some sort of flame war or getting too many email bombs. The upsampled units that I've heard tend to exude a large amount of (apparent) detail. I said ‘apparent' because of the mathematic interpolation an upsampler does. The upsampler samples the information on a CD and then ‘approximates' the additional detail through a complicated algorithm. Upsampling (as I understand it) stretches the data points apart (of sorts) and fills in the gaps with approximated data, smoothing the data stream curve. The end result is, the upsampled signal that comes out of your speakers supposedly has higher resolution. You hear more detail, there is a greater breathiness to the sound on your CD. As I stated earlier, done well, upsampling can sound very good. Done poorly, it can sound like cats mating. Upsampling can also bring the soundstage quite a bit more forward into your room. And yes, just ‘average' upsampling can be quite harsh, fatiguing and can have a definite digital sheen to it.

In a back to back comparison between the two, non-oversampling can sound a bit dull and lacking in detail. But, after your ears become accustomed to the non-oversampled chip, you begin to understand that the presentation becomes far more relaxed and less aggressive. I hate to use this term but it sounds less forced. In essence, less digital sounding. Even though it isn't vinyl, it contains a few more of its qualities (IMO) than its higher resolution cousin, upsampling.

I guess what I'm getting at is the differing sampling rates are ultimately a personal preference. Each can sound quite good when done properly. If you want some seriously technical information regarding sampling rates, do a Google search using "upsampling vs. oversampling" as the search parameter. You'll get enough reading material to keep you going for weeks on end.

denjo · « **Reply #70 on:** 16 Feb 2007, 01:59 am »

I have been looking at alternative ways of powering the Altmann other than with a SLA battery. At the moment I am using a cheap convertor which I know is less than ideal. An audio engineer in England, Paul Hynes (www.paulhynesdesign.com) has been making audiophile quality power supplies for many years and seems to be an expert in this field. I will very likely go with his shunt regulator power supply which I hope to use to power the Altmann and SB3. The technical specs of the PS is as follows:

Error amplifier :-
slew rate 5,000 volts per microsecond
rise time 0.55 nanoseconds
load transient settling time 10 nanoseconds
input noise 2 nanovolts root HZ
gain bandwidth product 1GHz

Regulator parameters DC to 100 KHz :-
output impedance less than 0.001 ohm (one milliohm)
power supply line rejection minimum 110 dB
currently available 5 volts 1 amp and 12 volts 0.5 amp. Custom to order.
The regulator is still regulating well at 100 MHz. Even the best of the three terminal regulators have stopped regulating by around 5 MHz.

The two PS will cost about Sterling 360.

I feel quite confident that this would be the way to go with the Altmann and SB3.

Best Regards
Dennis

giorgino1 · « **Reply #71 on:** 5 Mar 2007, 01:43 am »

Hi Guys.

I've very intrigued by the Altman DAC and wonder if anyone who has heard (owned) a Marantz CD-7 can give their thoughts.

Thanks

George

denjo · « **Reply #72 on:** 5 Mar 2007, 01:48 am »

I have not heard the Marantz CD-7 but have heard the 63SE (modded with highend clock). The Altmann sounds more organic and fluid, more analog sounding. Its about as close to vinyl as you can ever get with the Altmann (with JISCO). Check the Altmann Tour post for more comments.

giorgino1 · « **Reply #73 on:** 5 Mar 2007, 12:07 pm »

Thanks denjo for your input. The Marantz CD-7 is a significant step up from the 63SE. It's the supposedly top of the range "highend" model built in the late 90's with the TDA1541AS2 (double crown) DAC as later used by the Zanden. I understand the CD-7 adopts the early 80's multi-bit / non-upsampling technologies. While it has a filter after the DAC stage I wonder how different the sound might be when compared with the Attraction. No worries if no one has heard both.

vman71 · « **Reply #74 on:** 8 Mar 2007, 01:55 pm »

I'm looking to buy an Altmann Attraction DAC. I was actually trying to pull the trigger on a Scott Nixon Tube DAC+ but alas, no response to my emails. So, I've gone in search of another and stumbled upon the Enjoy the Music shootout of four DACs and after reading it, I think that I will pull the trigger on an Attraction DAC.

My current 2 channel set up is:
EAD CD-1000 mkIII
Plinius 8100 integrated amp
Klipsch Chorus II

Any thoughts on if this will work with my set up? Also, what is the US price of this bad boy? Are there any special configurations that I should request?

Thanks for any and all help and advice.
Mike

vman71 · « **Reply #75 on:** 8 Mar 2007, 02:34 pm »

Well, my hopes of getting the Attraction DAC are looking very, very slim. The price is just out of my league. I have to be under $600 total and it is just not looking good.

Does anybody know of any used ones for sale? Or what are the next best top 3 alternatives?

Mike

lt5dude · « **Reply #76 on:** 8 Mar 2007, 02:44 pm »

The cheapest used Altman Attraction DAC I've seen was listed for $1200, and I've only seen 2 or 3 used ones listed.
A frequently recommended alternative is the MDHT Labs Paradisea which is $500 new. Tons of discussion of this item on this site. I haven't heard the Altman, but very much enjoy the Paradisea.
Hope this helps.

Adamay · « **Reply #77 on:** 8 Mar 2007, 06:35 pm »

Vman71, there's a Paradisea for sale here; you may have noticed already. I have no relation to the buyer and I have no experience with that dac, but I am quite committed to my Altmann Attraction Dac; I've stopped looking at digital upgrades since getting it. Best wishes with your search.

Loftprojection · « **Reply #78 on:** 8 Mar 2007, 08:36 pm »

Quote from: vman71 on 8 Mar 2007, 02:34 pm

Or what are the next best top 3 alternatives?

Paradisea usually sells on ebay between $400 and $500. Use the rest of your budget to buy a WE396a tube for it and you will probably not be dissapointed. If you are super lucky, the Bendix tubes are supposed to be even better. I have mine for almost a year now and I'm still not tempted to upgrade to something else!

vman71 · « **Reply #79 on:** 11 Mar 2007, 11:28 pm »

Thanks for the helpful responses!

I ended up finding a great deal on a Bel Canto DAC2, which, from the multiple reviews I've read, makes me feel like I've landed the right DAC for my system.

I should be getting it by early next week and will report back to you my thoughts/impressions.

Mike