How would you treat this room?

Carlman · « **on:** 27 May 2003, 02:12 pm »

I have a friend that has most graciously allowed me to experiment with a spare set of the 'corners' product 8th Nerve sells. My room is a bit odd and I have some boomy bass sometimes that needs some control. I'm using Revel F30's which could fill a 30x30 foot room with sound with a small amp. However, I don't have that much room.

When I'm sitting in the listening position, my room is 12' deep, almost 30' wide, and 9' high. I've got some odd shapes and I'm too close to the speakers for my taste. I can hear a lot of reflection off the wall direcly behind my head. I try to put a pillow behind my head while I'm listening to help with that... I put the corners on that wall and it helped a bit. I haven't really found them to overly tame the bass but, they seem to help a little. I have put them in the corners between the speakers and entertainment center which helps a little but, not a lot. The ones behind my head helped the most with imaging and cutting the reflection.

Here are some photos of the room.

Thanks for any advice on what might work in this scenario. I was thinking of putting some foam panels on the wall behind my head. Don't know yet...

Thanks,
Carl

Obie · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 May 2003, 02:30 pm »

Carl,

Thanks for your inquiry. Corners certainly aren't going to do much to attenuate bass boom-- there's simply not enough volume of burn material to handle those oscillations. Their principle job is breaking up horn loading problems. To get after some of that bass and mid-bass we use Framed Responses. Have you determined what frequency band the room is accentuating?

To calm the reflection behind your head, I'd suggest playing with a couple of echoes. As is almost always the case, a roompack is really the place to start with your room treament-- that's why we offer it as a package.

These pictures are really good. Can you take a few more of them, getting some other room angles (concentrating on getting all the corners, nooks, and crannies)? Feel free to email them to me or to all of us at [email protected].

Thanks again for your post. We look forward to helping you to maximize your system.

Warm regards,
Kris Johnson

Obie · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 May 2003, 03:23 pm »

Carl,

I just noticed that you're located in Durham. In a stellar coincidence, I'm traveling this weekend to see an old school chum who's doing a PhD in musicology at Duke. Drop me an email, and maybe we can work out a consult/visit/listening blitz.

I've never been to the area. What are the highlights?

Kris

Carlman · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 May 2003, 08:18 pm »

If you like schools and research campuses, you'll love Durham.

Duke Gardens and watching the Durham Bulls minor league baseball are probably the only things I'd call 'highlights. There's a couple of seedy bars I enjoy as well. But, Durham's biggest highlight is probably Raleigh, it's neighboring city.

Oh, I just remembered, there are sometimes a few jazz bands that play live on Wednesday nights at the mall. If you're here midweek, I think that'd be worth checking out.

I'll send an email for more specifics.

Thanks,
Carl

nature boy · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 May 2003, 09:22 pm »

Hey Kris and Carlman,

I also get to Durham, NC once in a while as a Duke grad school alumni - Nicholas School of the Environment. I miss the gardens, Durham Bulls, Duke Forest, but most importantly that wonderful Carolina BBQ. The gardens and forest should be in full swing.

NB

Obie · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 May 2003, 09:42 pm »

Dear Carl,

I've replied to your email. Let's please try to get together this weekend. There's nothing I'd enjoy more. Just for us to make some plans.

Nature Boy- (OT)
What was your field in grad school? Are you in fact the outdoorsy type? Won't get to camp or fish this trip, but there's lots of great camping to explore in TN.

Kris

nature boy · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 May 2003, 11:14 pm »

Kris,

Yup, received a Master's of Environmental Management with a focus on Natural Resource Policy and Economics at the Duke Nicholas School for the Environment. I currently work for The Nature Conservancy, a leading international non-profit conservation organization that preserves ecologically valuable land and waters. Thus my handle - nature boy, seems to fit well.

I try to get to fishing, fresh or saltwater in as often as possible. Also enjoy hiking in the Appalachians, usually TN or WV, as often as my schedule permits. Get to see some pretty spectacular and special places working for TNC. Maybe I'll get around to putting together an AC members trip one of these days.

BTW, for those of you interested in bird migration, the Delaware Bay is currently hosting an annual migration of 20+ shorebird species. These birds winter in South America and breed in the Artic. They stop at Delaware Bay in late May-early June on the annual trek to refuel on horseshoe crab eggs and invertebrates, as they lose about 1/2 their body weight in flight.

Regards,

NB

WilliamL · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 May 2003, 03:22 pm »

By the way,

Roger lives in the small town where, until recently my parents formerly resided! Small world.

_______________________________________ ____________________
These birds winter in South America and breed in the Artic. They stop at Delaware Bay in late May-early June on the annual trek to refuel on horseshoe crab eggs and invertebrates, as they lose about 1/2 their body weight in flight.
_______________________________________ _____________________

Yes, I remember all those horseshoe crabs all over the beaches--Rehobeth, Lewes, etc--and being freaked out by them. I am not much of a fan of lobster/crabs.

Cheers,
Bill

Carlman · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Jun 2003, 04:44 pm »

Kris and his friend showed up yesterday and totally fixed my problems.
What were my problems?
-Lack of soundstage, bizarre instrument represenation (some seemed big, and others small, and misplaced)
-Harsh sounding highs and room reflections caused fatigue.

I wasn't 100% sure if my system was setup correctly... as in amount of toe, phase correctness, etc.

To summarize, here's the problems Kris fixed:
Speakers:
-toe'd in too much, and not the same angle degree
-not exactly the same distance from listening position
-wired out of phase (apparently my DAC inverts phase)
Room:
-Room is no longer reflective causing the glare or harshness I was experiencing... thanks to Corners, echoes and seams.... oh my!
Tweaks:
-Tighter accuracy thanks to Auric Illuminator on a few of my favorite CD's
-Better imaging focus thanks to Sine wave/demagnetizer CD
-Also, he measured room for frequency peaks

Wow. Talk about a total transformation overall.
The differences are:
-Incredible imaging and better instrument/singer placement... just overall incredible musical presentation.
-Better dynamics, I think from the phase issue.
-NO fatigue like I was having. I could listen for hours and be totally cool. In fact, I was excited to wake up and go listen this morning and hear it again. It's that much better.

I am now really looking forward to installing new cables. If the cheap wire I'm using now can sound this good, I can imagine how good new stuff will be. I don't like my speaker cable. It blows.... all $5 of it. It will all be replaced soon... more on that later.

Kris was awesome. I had a great time learning about room treatment and what to listen for. His product doesn't deaden the room but, it definitely makes it easier to hear where sounds initiate. I'll be playing around with it more today. The product itself is very unassuming and does not appear incredibly high tech but, his application of it is... and it makes a huge differnce.

I was highly skeptical that these products could make a difference in my room but, now I'll be buying at least a room pack fairly soon.

nature boy · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Jun 2003, 07:27 pm »

Now that's what I call service - a visit from Kris or Bill to oversee placement of Eighth Nerve Room Response treatments and trouble shoot a customer's system. Wait a second? I thought internet direct sellers weren't suppose to provide a high level of service.

This is really what is great about the many manufacturers who post here on Audio Circle. Great value products, good communiciations, a high level of service, and commitment to customer satisfaction. I wish some of the high end audio shops would learn this lesson, maybe they didn't get around to this subject in B-school.

NB

Carlman · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 07:39 pm »

Quote from: nature boy

Now that's what I call service - a visit from Kris or Bill to oversee placement of Eighth Nerve Room Response treatments and trouble shoot a customer's system. Wait a second? I thought internet direct sellers weren't suppose to provide a high level of service.

This is really what is great about the many manufacturers who post here on Audio Circle. Great value products, good communiciations, a high level of service, and commitment to customer satisfaction. I wish some of the high end audio shops would ...

I couldn't agree more. I mentioned to Kris that I was very thankful that he took the time to do this... he insisted he enjoyed it and it wasn't a big effort... but, I think it's a big deal which is why I posted the results of his efforts here.

Some other things I've noticed about the 8th nerve 'pillows'... the sound of the appliances in the kitchen aren't as loud in the den anymore. (my kitchen opens into the den) Also, while talking on the phone, I could tell the kitchen was missing the usual hollow sound I was used to. Neat. This is with just one echo placed in the kitchen. (Kris suggested the position)

I'm very impressed with this product. Enough to recommend it to anyone and everyone. Hantra recommended them to me and had an extra set of corners he let me borrow. I placed them in the wrong places (on the floor) and backwards so, I didn't realize much a difference. Then, Kris gave me some pointers and explained how they worked. Once placed properly, these products work magic to treat a room... I'm still amazed at how great my system sounds.

So, THANKS A MILLION! to Kris for his hard work... as well as Bill and whoever else at 8th Nerve helped make this product possible.

-Carl

Hantra · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 08:09 pm »

Dang, does that mean I am going to have to order another set of corners? haha

Glad Kris hooked you up. They're good guys out there, and they make very good products. They're not as overpriced as most room treatments, or most _______ in audio. . .

Juan R · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 10:02 pm »

I am waiting for my order to arrive. I spoke with Kris several time because my unusual room. Hope that the sound can be improve. Will be a lot of work, I guess because of the amount of proucts he recomended.

Marbles · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Jun 2003, 10:13 pm »

Quote from: Juan R

I am waiting for my order to arrive. I spoke with Kris several time because my unusual room. Hope that the sound can be improve. Will be a lot of work, I guess because of the amount of proucts he recomended.

If you have drywall it will be no work at all, if you have marble, tile, brick or other hard wall's/ceiling then it will be some work.

Those pushpins make it very easy to hang.

Obie · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 12:40 pm »

Carlman,

I've just returned from NC back to Nashville. Thank you so much for your kind words. It really IS fun for me to go out and hear different gear, lend a little advice, and play with our product in new situations. There are some really great things going on in your system, and the meaningful nudges and refinements we started on Saturday were effective in large part because of the work you've put into it.

To everyone else: Carl grills a MEAN steak and he has exceptional taste in Scotch and cigars-- ample reward for an afternoon of service. I'll be in Cleveland and San Antonio areas in July, hint, hint. Seriously Carl, thanks for your hospitality. It was my pleasure to meet you.

Warmest thanks,
Kris Johnson