[hanonymus]

I would like to know what are some good (best?) transports to use with a Bryston DAC. From my own experiments I have found so far that:
- pairing it with a cheap DVD player yields (as expected) not-so-great results
- in conjunction with a "mid-fi," moderately expensive DVD player it sounds even worse(!): harsh, hazy, lifeless, no bass. However,
- switching to another unit (a DVD recorder I had around) things improved a lot: bass, focus, rhythm - however, at the expense of detail and HF response.

Obviously (doh!) transports can make quite a big difference with Bryston DACs.

However, finding a good transport seems to be a hit or miss thing – it is not necessarily a factor of price. So I was wondering: what are other owners using? And, most importantly, I’d like to know what Bryston uses for their tests (if possible). I’ve heard both positive and negative opinions about these DACs – I believe those who are disappointed with their units may have a wrong DAC/transport combination. At any rate, that’s what I would like to rule out before giving up on mine.

Any suggestions for some [affordable, if possible] transports worth looking into?

Thanks.

[elcaptain88]

I previously used a Bryston internal DAC - I used it with a variety of different drive units, I could never tell a difference between them. Be careful here, as your initial expectations and 'pschoacoustics' can play tricks on you. When testing out different equipment, I did blind tests and had my wife randomly change sources - I used speakers and headphones.  Anything involving speakers & room acoustics will greatly overshadow any miniscule differences between digital optical drives. Listen before you buy.

[Phil A]

I would like to know what are some good (best?) transports to use with a Bryston DAC. From my own experiments I have found so far that:
- pairing it with a cheap DVD player yields (as expected) not-so-great results
- in conjunction with a "mid-fi," moderately expensive DVD player it sounds even worse(!): harsh, hazy, lifeless, no bass. However,
- switching to another unit (a DVD recorder I had around) things improved a lot: bass, focus, rhythm - however, at the expense of detail and HF response.

O ...

Yes to some degree it is a hit or miss thing.  I'm currently using an outboard DAC (Micromega DuoPro) and have had it hooked to a variety of transports in the main system with things being bought and sold and the basement system for a bit.  I have LD players, a DVD Recorder, DVD Players, a CD Recorder, CD Changers, etc.  I like it best on CDs with my Proceed PMDT which I sold several yrs. back (was just a DVD transport - expensive though).  My Sony 2000ES CD/SACD changer was good with it too.  Did not care for it with the LD player.  Currently using it with my Marantz DV9600 universal player in the main system.  Before, I'd personally buy more transports to experiment, I'd consider a hard drive based CD playback system as right now I have 9 transports between my 3 systems I could use.

[nicolasb]

Bryston DACs reclock the signal, so they should be relatively immune to the influence of the transport - more or less anything will do.

[denjo]

The DVD player used as a transport should be bit perfect and be able to pass as pure a signal from the transport to the DAC. I use an inexpensive Panasonic S47 DVD player that is bit perfect and transmits 24 bit/192 data to my Benchmark DAC1. Next, don't overlook a good digital cable from the transport to the DAC1. I placed three halves (squash balls sliced in half with rounded side down, choosing SOFT balls but you can experiment with other types) for isolation. It works pretty well! What is more, the Panasonic is stable as it grips the rubber! Hope this helps!

[hanonymus]

Bryston DACs reclock the signal, so they should be relatively immune to the influence of the transport - more or less anything will do.

Yes, I heard about this. So theoretically, at least, transports shouldn't matter [much]. But in practice, the DACs are not really immune, and there *are* differences.

And I don't think it's about pshychoacoustics, either. I can compare two transports instantaneously (switch between a and b) and still feel a difference.

[Phil A]

I'm not super technical but I know that most DVD players use the 48k DVD-V video bitstream to transmit 44.1k PCM as it's close and cheaper than a separate clock.  I'm not sure what process is involved when you send that signal to an outboard DAC.  I use Gingko Audio (gingkoaudio.com) Cloud 10 platforms for isolation.  Have lots of isolation stuff and found that works best even though not cheap.  As James Tanner has noted the SP1.7 DAC is not optimized for 2-channel audio the way it is implemented.  I've tried it and it is OK but not as good as a good source going 2-channel bypass.

[alpsy]

just wondering what will be the benefit of using a fingers crossed soon to be released byrston cd player if using the byrston DAC? Will there be any sonic improvement?

cheers,

julie

[Phil A]

just wondering what will be the benefit of using a fingers crossed soon to be released byrston cd player if using the byrston DAC? Will there be any sonic improvement?

cheers,

julie

The CD player has a DAC built in.  If you decide to buy the Bryston DAC then you should probably opt for the Bryston transport.  The CD player will be one component.  Going with the DAC and transport will be two but you'll have the option of running other things thru the DAC (with its multiple inputs) vs. just CD playback.  For example, a PC, Squeezebox or Roku Soundbridge (or some other device that interfaces with the PC and your music playback system), etc.

[nicolasb]

And I don't think it's about pshychoacoustics, either. I can compare two transports instantaneously (switch between a and b) and still feel a difference.

So, in other words, it almost certainly is psychoacoustics.  

If you want to make this a valid test, you would need to do the following:

- Blindfold yourself.

- Get someone else to generate a sequence of random numbers by tossing a coin (say) 20 or 30 times. This generates a sequence of heads and tails. No cheating: if it comes down heads five times in a row, that's fine.

- You're not allowed to see the sequence.

- Go out of the room.

- Have someone else wire up the system, according to each head/tail choice. If it was a head, wire transport 1 on switch A and transport 2 on switch B. If it was a tail, they're wired up the other way.

- Ensure that the time you wait outside the room is exactly the same each time (otherwise, if you are asked back in more quickly, you will know the wires haven't been moved since the last time you were in the room.

- While still blindfold, listen to the same piece of music on A and B settings. Say which way round you think the transports are. Have someone record your choice without telling you if you are right or wrong.

- Repeat for each head or tail.

- After you get to the end of the sequence, see how consistently you have managed to identify which way round the transports were wired. If you got it right nearly every time, then that suggests there may actually be a difference.

In fact, even this isn't strictly a valid experiment. To make it entirely rigorous you would a) need to ensure that the person doing the switching and making a note of your choices also doesn't know which way round the transports are wired, and you would need to generate more random numbers which would allow you to randomly mix up which cables are being used, which inputs on the DAC and switch-box, etc. in case they are having an influence on the sound, and you'd need to take extra care with the positioning of objects in the room (such as yourself or the cable-switcher person) as that can influence the room acoustics.

[hanonymus]

I don't need a double blind test to confirm what I'm hearing. And that's not really the point, anyway. I was just curious about what people think works well with their converters, and perhaps what Bryston used when testing the units.

[nicolasb]

I don't need a double blind test to confirm what I'm hearing.

No, but you do need a double-blind test to confirm that what you're hearing is not entirely due to "psychoacoustics", which is what you originally claimed.

[jamesp]

denjo or anyone,

You suggested the use of a good digital cable. I also have the b100DA with totem forests and would like to know what you would suggest. I am using a NAD 541 CDP with an el cheapo digital interconnect. I am wondering just how much of a difference a higher quality interconnect would mke.

[Slingshotx]

Bryston DACs reclock the signal, so they should be relatively immune to the influence of the transport - more or less anything will do.

Is this true of all Bryston DACS ? I recently swapped to using the DACS in my SP1.7 because they sounded better than the CD player (Rega Planet). So thinking I could now get rid of the CD player I tried using the DVD (Pioneer 757) as a transport for playing CD's and I really have to say it sounded truly horrible.

So while I haven't done any blind tests, I'm thinking maybe there's a fault with the SP1.7 and maybe I should get it checked out ?

Cheers

Slingshot.

[James Tanner]

The SP1.7 Processor does not reclock. Only the DACs in the BP26 Preamps and Integrated Amps.

james

[nicolasb]

Bryston DACs reclock the signal, so they should be relatively immune to the influence of the transport - more or less anything will do.

Is this true of all Bryston DACS ? I recently swapped to using the DACS in my SP1.7 because they sounded better than the CD player (Rega Planet). So thinking I could now get rid of the CD player I tried using the DVD (Pioneer 757) as a transport for playing CD's and I really have to say it sounded truly horrible.

I guess I should have been a bit more precise, there.

No, the SP1.7 doesn't reclock the signal. If you want to use your SP1.7 as a pre-amp, then the best sound quality will be obtained by using a separate player/DAC with the SP1.7 in two-channel analogue bypass mode. If you're using the SP1.7's DACs, then the quality of the sound will be strongly dependent on the level of jitter on the digital signal as produced by the player.

However, the BP25DA and BP26DA pre-amp/DAC devices do reclock the signal and are thus more or less immune to the influence of the transport. There are actually better ways of reclocking the signal than the method employed by Bryston, but it's a lot better than nothing.

It's dissapointing that Bryston doesn't seem to be interested in adding a jitter-reduction stage to the SP1.7: it would improve movie sound quality quite significantly, if nothing else.

Edit: Started composing this before James T replied. May as well leave it here, now....

[Slingshotx]

Thanks James and Nicolas, I'm happy then now, just need to wait for my CD player to die and then I can put all the money into getting a new DAC and using the bypass.

[hanonymus]

The SP1.7 Processor does not reclock. Only the DACs in the BP26 Preamps and Integrated Amps.

james

What about the BP25? I gather it's virtually the same DAC except for the power supply?

(I see nicolasb just said they are the same, but JT said BP26, so... ?)

[Tman]

Ok,here goes....I owned a bryston bp25dac.I always believed a transport is a transport and there couldn't possibly be any differences BUT I tried a number of different transports with this dac and here is what I discovered.( I used a 1 meter lenght of generic 75 ohm cable)
  1) most transports have very little  or perhaps even no differences.
  2) there are a few transports that sound quite different
  3) price didn't seem to have a whole lot to do with it

  Worst transport match for this dac was the Esoteric DV50
  Best transport match for this dac was the Acoustic Arts drive one( this combo rivaled the very best in digital playback)
  Best budget transport was a used teac(esoteric) vrds 9 followed by the arcam cd 72 (MAYBE IT WAS 73).
  NAD also sounded bad with the bryston dac.
  I have no idea why there are differnces in transports.These are ACTIVE devices so I guess an engineer would be able to explain how differences could possibly exist(remember I said for most I tried I could not  really hear any differnce)
     I am so confident of the differences in sound of these 2 transports(esoteric dv50 and acoustic arts drive one) with the bryston dac that I will eat my shorts if I couldn't identify between the 2 with 100% accuracy.
  Now,I can almost hear the screams of heracy.
   Go try it for yourself and you will see exactly what I am talking about.