Gainclones vs. T amp variations

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #20 on:** 27 Apr 2006, 03:42 am »

Quote from: GHM

Hey Chris it sounds like a plan. We could just swap if you like. I'll send you the Audio Sector and you send me the Teac after you do a comparison. Since you were so gracious... I'm more than happy to return the favor. If it weren't for you I may have passed the gain clones up. The sound of the Audio Sector is stuck in my head . I wouldn't need both here to hear the difference between the two amps. Let me know and I'll pack it up and ship it to you.

Thank you Gymane....I'll send you a PM so we can arrange things.....

Chris[/list:u]

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #21 on:** 2 May 2006, 06:21 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

Quote from: GHM
Hey Chris it sounds like a plan. We could just swap if you like. I'll send you the Audio Sector and you send me the Teac after you do a comparison. Since you were so gracious... I'm more than happy to return the favor. If it weren't for you I may have passed the gain clones up. The sound of the Audio Sector is stuck in my head . I wouldn't need both here to hear the difference between the two amps. Let me know and I'll pack it up and ship it to you.
Thank you Gymane....I'll send you a PM so we can arrange things.....
Chris[/list:u]

It has arrived safe and sound (and a day early)....looks better in person.....just put it in a simple system for a listen....NICE !!!!..

Info Link....Audio Sector Integrated ........[/list:u]

wendell · « **Reply #22 on:** 2 May 2006, 06:28 pm »

looking forward to comparisons

I've got a teac that I want to get modded, not sure whether I want to go BOLDER or RWA Battery mods.

GHM · « **Reply #23 on:** 2 May 2006, 07:03 pm »

Great Chris...glad it got there in one piece. And early too..this is great!!
To be so small, it's a solid little bugger isn't it.

Enjoy!!

rajacat · « **Reply #24 on:** 10 May 2006, 01:48 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

It has arrived safe and sound (and a day early)....looks better in person.....just put it in a simple system for a listen....NICE !!!!..
Off to work now....later for some serious listening.
Thanks again Gymane....
Chris
Info Link....Audio Sector Integrated ........[/list]

So what's the verdit? Do you prefer the Audio Sector or theTeac? Or do you like aspects of both and therefore how do they differ?

Raja

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #25 on:** 10 May 2006, 04:31 am »

rajacat :

Quote

So what's the verdit? Do you prefer the Audio Sector or theTeac? Or do you like aspects of both and therefore how do they differ?

Raja

[/list:u]Well....lets see.

[/list:u]

Sorry to say, my schedule has been tight. So....I don't have in alot of hours of listening....but ....

I Like It

!!![/list:u]

Chris[/list:u]

rajacat · « **Reply #26 on:** 10 May 2006, 05:55 am »

Chris,

Thank you for the review and the photo.

Raja

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #27 on:** 13 May 2006, 04:52 am »

rajacat,

GHM · « **Reply #28 on:** 13 May 2006, 12:01 pm »

Thanks Chris....this will be fun!!

I'm always excited to hear something different. Maybe I need to start a website for audiophiles that are willing to swap gear and listen. It would make deciding to buy a component much easier without spending a chunk of change and finding it doesn't fit their taste. Being able to hear it in your own home with the gear you're familiar with is a major plus. This is the one thing audio reviewers get to do that I envy... listening without blowing their own money.

GHM · « **Reply #29 on:** 18 May 2006, 11:36 pm »

Thanks to Chris I received the amplifiers yesterday in perfect conditon.

This may seem quick, but I've spent many hours listening to this system. It doesn't take me long to hear differences when swapping equipment.

First impressions ...I've been listening since yesterday evening to the RW Teac. Take into account I haven't listened to my system in several weeks. Also my speakers are 89dB sensitive. When I first fired up the Teac..I noticed how grain free and transparent the cymbals and midrange sounded.

On the negative side I also noticed a highlighting of the upper midrange and highs. What I mean by this... is the piano strikes seem over pronounced. I wish I had a passive attenuator laying around , so I could run the Teac without an active preamp. This maybe a mismatch in the system for the Teac. I tried turning up the volume to see if it would help with the imbalance that I heard.
The sound with the Teac if pushed a tad bit too much, can become fatiguing. For the record, I normally listen around 75 to 80 dB max.

I'm also not sure if the Teac has enough power for my speakers. The sound seem to get stuck around the speakers and not project as I've become accustom too. I hear all the instruments and voices in between the speakers. There's a flattening of the sound. The Teac does have bass!! It's a different kind of bass from the Audio Sector integrated. Both are adequate.. just different.

I was actually starting to think something was wrong with the speakers themselves. As the depth of the soundfield just wasn't there and neither was the transient snap. This evening I decided to put the Audio Sector back in the system. HOLY SMOKES!! Guys the specs of these two units seem fairly close. But and this is the big BUT. The AS unit has enough reserve to do 100 wpc peaks. I didn't have to listen hard to hear the difference between these two amplifiers. It maybe also hard to believe but the AS integrated is also quieter in my system. I have a hum with the RW Teac and active linestage in the loop. I'm thinking totally passive or a battery powered linestage would be the best match for the Teac.

I'm also guessing that Chris's test speakers are much more sensitive and not quite as fullrange as what I use. This would make it much harder to hear the difference in bass and over all frequency balance between these two amplifiers.

Please don't take this as bashing the battery powered Tripath amplifier

. I have a home made version I'm trying to get finished now. Listening too this unit just helps give me an idea of what kind of speakers I need to match up with my unit when it is complete. I remember The Chairguy commenting about this amplifier in the past. I must inform him ..there's nothing wrong with his hearing.

That's all for now... back to listening.

As always ..Thanks Chris !!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 May 2006, 04:39 am »

Your welcome Gymane !!

Chris[/list:u]

GHM · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 May 2006, 11:44 am »

I sure will continue to experiment my friend. Yeah..the FTA-2000s are single drivers but definitely not built for super high efficiency or very low powered amplifiers.

Just goes to show ...component matching is crucial. If I didn't have other amplifiers around to swap in. I would have assumed the Fostex F200As were hard , fatiguing and imbalanced.

What's that saying

..you can have two of the three speaker characteristics but never all three. I had to give up some efficiency for deeper bass.

The price difference is also something to consider. Though I feel the Scott Nixon Mono's punch well above their price point and compete well with the little Audio Sector integrated or any other amplifier remotely close in price.
The sound of both Chip amps is just much fuller than the battery powered T amp. Also there's much more separation in the sound stage with the Chip amps. Instead having the sound sitting infront of you , it wraps around you with the Chip amps. The bass sounds slightly synthetic with the T amp compared to the Chips on my speakers. Looks like I'll need to match my battery powered T amp integrated up with speakers that roll off above 50Hz..so not to notice this.

I'm looking forward to hearing this DAC!!! I'm sure it will be a treat.

All the Best!

ebag4 · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 May 2006, 12:39 pm »

Hi GMH:
I wonder if you are using the BSC filter network with your speakers. If so it would be interesting to see how the Teac fairs without it. It has been my experience that the chip amps do much better driving the drivers directly rather then going through a crossover or filter.

Thanks,
Ed

GHM · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 May 2006, 01:52 pm »

Hi Ed,
Yes I use the BSC filter inline. Good question...I've never tried the FTAs without the filter. ...As they seem to benefit from using it.

The Chip amps seem very happy with the load. I've always thought that amplifiers are much happier when they see a steady but friendly impedance load..though I could be wrong. The Battery T-amp could be just the opposite in this manner.

The differences I'm hearing could be more than just power ratings. The battery T-amp seems to have a slump in the middle of the over all frequency range. Bass is pronounced more and so is the upper mid/high range. The midband sounds less focused. This amplifier or amplifiers like it probably work better at controlling the shout certain single or wide range drivers have by its very nature. More or less working together to give a balanced sound. The FTAs are designed to sound balanced from the start. So using an amplifier that has these characteristics isn't needed, As it shows the warts of the amplifier's voicing. This is just something I've been thinking about as I listen and try to figure out what's going on..it is only a hypothesis.

The differences are extremely apparent. I could blind fold a person not familiar with either...they would know as soon as I switched the units on.

ebag4 · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 May 2006, 02:09 pm »

Thanks GMH, what I meant to say was "It has been my experience that the T-amps do much better driving the drivers directly rather then going through a crossover or filter."

Thanks,
Ed[/quote]

GHM · « **Reply #35 on:** 19 May 2006, 03:28 pm »

Ed, I did run the ClariT with the Omega Grande 8s. This combo sounded great!! The Omega 8s seem to roll off sharply below 80Hz. This made the ClariT a good match because it also rolls of sharply below 100 Hz. I used dual subs to flesh out the sound ..it helped to bring balance to the music.

JLM · « **Reply #36 on:** 19 May 2006, 04:39 pm »

I've had $500 8 wpc stock Clari-T, $750 modded Clari-T, $100 stock Teac, and now $1000/pair Channel Island Audio chip based VMB-1 monoblocks with the FTA-2000 speakers (with BSC circuit) and Red Wine Audio fully modded Squeeze Box 3. The listening was done in a 13ft x 21ft x 8ft dedicated listening room without room treatments. However the room is well isolated acoustically and electrically. Physical layout is Cardias prescribed nearfield.

Notes:

1. The VMB-1 should be comparable to the Audio Sector amp.

2. None of the digital amps (Clari-Ts or Teac) could produce a decent stereo image. Note that single driver speakers with the above set-up should be nearly ideal for imaging.

3. The mods on the Clari-T made a big improvement, making the decision to sell the stock version questionable IMO.

4. The Teac produced gobs more bass, demonstrating the inadequacy of 8 wpc (abet very strong watts compared to other small tube amps) with 89 dB/w/m speakers. Sound quality was quite remarkable for the money.

5. The VMB-1s produce the bass of the Teac, but also image exceedingly well. Small sounds come across as smaller but better detailed and help define the soundscape, especially in terms of depth. Ultimate spls are limited by the 1 volt output of the SB3, but listening 67 inches from the speakers mitigates the issue.