Best power cord for Bel Canto PRe2?

sabes · « **on:** 17 Apr 2006, 02:11 pm »

anyone out there have any recommendations for an after-market power cord in the $300 range that would be a great match for the bel canto pre2? associated equip: channel islands ci200 monoblocks, heavily modded squeezebox 2 digital source, tyler acoustics taylo monitors. thanks!

PhilNYC · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 04:55 pm »

I use an Audience powerChord with my Pre3 (similar but stripped down design as the Pre2) with good results....

chosenhandle · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 06:22 pm »

When talking with Bel Canto a few weeks ago, they seemed to be in tight with Cardas. Maybe you should give them a call and see what they recommend.

sabes · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 06:49 pm »

bel canto has told me that, chosenhandle, so i'm naturally suspicious and "taking it to the people!" have you had experience with either?

zako · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 06:44 pm »

What makes you think that last 4 feet coming out of the wall socket will change a well regulated power supply in your unit? Thats a waste of $ 300.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 06:52 pm »

Quote from: zako

What makes you think that last 4 feet coming out of the wall socket will change a well regulated power supply in your unit?.

Have you tried it?

zako · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 06:58 pm »

Yup!!!!!

PhilNYC · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 07:04 pm »

Quote from: zako

Yup!!!!!

FWIW - We've done more than a handful of power cord swaps at our NY Audio Raves over the years, and particularly for digital gear (sources, class D amps), it hasn't even been a question whether the power cord makes a difference...the differences have been *very* obvious, with results being repeatable and consistent.

zako · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 07:24 pm »

So your selling power cords? And that makes the unit sound different? Whats on the other side of the connecter to the units power supply?

PhilNYC · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 07:41 pm »

Quote from: zako

So your selling power cords? And that makes the unit sound different? Whats on the other side of the connecter to the units power supply?

Yes, I sell power cords. Note that I've only been a dealer for 3 years, yet I found power cords to make a significant difference long before becoming a dealer. So I'm not sure if my status as someone who sells power cords has affected my ears.

To answer your question regarding what's on the other side of the unit's power supply, obviously it is an AC line (in my case, a dedicated AC line using 12awg Romex industrial wiring through the house). Your obvious next question is "why would the 4ft between your AC outlet and your component make a difference?" Honestly, I have no clue. There are plenty of other people here on AC who could probably answer your question better than I could. Usually the explanation has something to do with the power cord's gauge, capacitance, etc. But I do trust my ears, and have been in situations where a power cord has made a component go from a very average piece of gear to sounding like a very good piece of gear.

My general advice to audiophiles (and especially customers) is..."if you can't hear the difference, don't spend the extra money". So in your case, I would tell you to be happy and don't worry about it. In the case of the original poster to this thread who is asking for suggestions, I offered to him advice based on my own experience. So...no conspiracy here...

boead · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 07:51 pm »

Quote from: zako

So your selling power cords? And that makes the unit sound different? Whats on the other side of the connecter to the units power supply?

You can say that about IC’s and Speaker cable. Most components use crap hookup wire and most speakers are internally wired with lamp cord.

Not sucking me into an endless and ultimately meaningless conversation but…

Power Cords, in my opinion, make just as much of a difference in sound presentation then IC’s and speaker cables.

To answer the posters question. I auditioned over ten thousand dollars in wire from usedcables.com and found three power cords that rise higher then all the others.

Harmonic Technology AC-10 Fantasy

Virtual Dynamics David

JPS Labs Digital Power Cord

The Harmonic Technology AC-10 Fantasy is by far my favorite, it sound great with whatever I put it on. It definitely has a ‘house sound’ that compliments preamps, amp and digital gear. The house sound is a pronounced weight in the bottom end that’s deep and tight and a very large soundstage that is also nicely focused. Top end is transparent and never bright.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 07:56 pm »

Quote from: boead

Virtual Dynamics David

I recently had a chance to try some Virtual Dynamics cables (Nite II series)...have to say that I was pretty impressed...

zako · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 08:12 pm »

On one side of the unit of course will be AC....On the other side of the unit will go through the power supply & convert to DC. I would recommend to the origional person (sabes) to purchase a good power conditioner. To clean up a dirty line. You can make a great power cord for under $50.

boead · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 08:29 pm »

Quote from: zako

On one side of the unit of course will be AC....On the other side of the unit will go through the power supply & convert to DC. I would recommend to the origional person (sabes) to purchase a good power conditioner. To clean up a dirty line. You can make a great power cord for under $50.

Sorry, I’m not bashing you but I have heard a number of power conditioners.
Most suck – the life out of the component that is. Sure maybe you get darker blacks but you also get reduced sound stage and loss in dynamics, especially with amps.

I use a Furman series-II conditioner that is a very light and subtle filter. Its NOT trying to be some super power cleaner and filter the AC to death. Iit ended up being one of the best I tried. Still my amp goes into the wall and my preamp as well. I use it for digital components only and other stuff that appeared to benefit from it like my HDTV and DVD Player. However, I can live without it. But I can’t live without my power cords!

PhilNYC · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 08:50 pm »

Quote from: zako

On one side of the unit of course will be AC....On the other side of the unit will go through the power supply & convert to DC.

Yep, and there are a wide range of quality of components to do that AC to DC conversion. None of them are perfect (or perfectly implemented), so some will be more suceptible to incoming power than others.

Quote

I would recommend to the origional person (sabes) to purchase a good power conditioner. To clean up a dirty line. You can make a great power cord for under $50.

You can make a great power conditioner for cheap, too (if you search for quality parts via surplus outlets et al...the folks here on AC who have designed/built "Felicia" have proven that). But for those who don't have the skill and/or time to DIY, buying a commercial product is certainly a valid alternative...

Occam · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Apr 2006, 10:20 pm »

WARNING! WARNING! I'M ON A TEAR TODAY.

Quote from: zako

So your selling power cords? ....

Zako - Was the fact that the product lines that Phil carries are all listed on his signature line too subtle for you?

I think I've some credibility as a cheap SOB DIYer hereabouts, but as Phil points out, many are not interested in DIY or simply feel their time actually has some value (mine certainly doesn't

). It doesn't mean those people are less worthy, it just means they're not that sort of dork.
Phil is one of the good guys. Actually, the exact opposite of Andy Singer in style and temperment. He spends far more feeding the hordes at the various AudioRaves he graciously hosts than he will ever get from the minimal sales he gets from AudioCirclers. You're new here, but you'll learn that the man is a true gentleman.

Boead - but the component Sabes asked about was a preamp, and no compentently designed powerconditioner (or even a Felicia) is going to suck the life or constrain dynamincs. Not that the Furman doowhadiddy isn't a reasonable conditioner, but your really should try a really good conditioner. Dunno where in New York you live, but here in Noo Yawk, where the power really does suck, a conditioner of the calibre of an Audience Adept (which doesn't constrain amp's dynamics) or BPT really is mandatory.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Apr 2006, 01:31 am »

Quote from: Occam

Phil is one of the good guys. Actually, the exact opposite of Andy Singer in style and temperment..

I think I'm going to cry....

Thanks Paul...

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Apr 2006, 07:13 am »

Quote from: Occam

Phil is one of the good guys. Actually, the exact opposite of Andy Singer in style and temperment..

Very true...Phil tells it like it is. He's not a salesman.

Chris[/list:u]

zako · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Apr 2006, 01:48 pm »

OCCAM....Im just trying to point out you dont have to spend $300. for 4 feet of power cord. I dont give a damn how honest a business you have. The mark up in manufacturing a product is 5 times its actual cost in making the product. If your a big time spender you wont mind. Just trying to save the poor slobs some cash. If you can screw in a light bulb into a socket, How hard is it to connect 3 wires to a plug. I not talking rocket science here. Im right your wrong & thats the end of this conversation.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Apr 2006, 02:05 pm »

Quote from: zako

OCCAM....Im just trying to point out you dont have to spend $300. for 4 feet of power cord.

If this is all you were trying to point out, then I agree 100%; depending on your system, different cords will have different synergies with different gear, and a $300 cord may/may-not be the right solution. My impression, however, was that you were trying to say that power cords do not make any sonic difference in a system because most AC lines use low-cost wiring, and most components use high quality power supplies...and this I disagree with based on what I have heard in swapping out power cords in my system. Your first post to this thread said

Quote

What makes you think that last 4 feet coming out of the wall socket will change a well regulated power supply in your unit?

Quote

The mark up in manufacturing a product is 5 times its actual cost in making the product.

This is true in many industries...furniture, bicycles, etc. There's no question that *everything* that is commercially available is marked up above its material costs, and that if you had time skill/time to make stuff yourself, it would save you money (assuming you placed no value on the time it actually takes you to make the stuff).