Aksa with amorphous cores

rick57 · « **on:** 15 Apr 2006, 10:42 am »

Hi Hugh

The Aksa website FAQ says:

“We are using 160 VA transformers with amorphous cores, and they perform outrageously well. The bass and image depth is really so much more remarkable than ONE quality 300 VA toroid.”

(BTW I’ll be using an amorphous core Lundahl on a 45 SE, when it soon becomes available, on another system).

What are the amorphous core trannies you used; what would you recommend (James? Lundahl? Harbuch)?

Thanks

Richard

rabbitz · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Apr 2006, 12:46 pm »

Antrims from Harbuch serves my AKSA 55N+ well (actually supplied by Hugh with the kit when I bought it).

rick57 · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Apr 2006, 02:50 pm »

If I can't find an amorphous core for a reasonable price, it’ll be Harbuch.

What is Harbuch’s *Antrim?

Thanks

andyr · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Apr 2006, 09:25 pm »

Quote from: rick57

If I can't find an amorphous core for a reasonable price, it’ll be Harbuch.

What is Harbuch’s *Antrim?

Thanks

Harbuch are Oz agents for the (I think "Oirish") make, Antrim.

Regards,

Andy

Greg Erskine · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Apr 2006, 10:09 pm »

Hi rick57,

Just in case you don't have the link to Harbuch.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/harbuch/harbuch.htm

Lots of options. I used the F2416 on my AKSA 55.

I've used lots of these toriods and have never had a problem. Some of the Antrims come with black lables (imported, I think?) and some with white labels (made in Australia, I think).

regards

Geoff-AU · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 02:31 am »

I'm no transformer expert, but I'm surprised amorphous cores make a difference in a power supply. In a tube output stage I can understand because you're reproducing a complex musical signal, but power supply is just 50Hz AC!

rick57 · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 04:23 am »

Hi Greg

I too was very surprised

that cores make a difference in a power supply. But I was very surprised how easily an Aksa slaughtered a Krell

. . . if Hugh and different amp doyen Peter Daniel (upmarket chipamps) are saying similar things . .

Hugh
Are they from here: http://toroidy.pl/ www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77777&perpage=10&pagenumber=2.

Cheers

andyr · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 04:48 am »

Quote from: Geoff-AU

I'm no transformer expert, but I'm surprised amorphous cores make a difference in a power supply. In a tube output stage I can understand because you're reproducing a complex musical signal, but power supply is just 50Hz AC!

Mmmm, but I've heard people say that an amplifier is merely a modulated power supply!!??

Hence I suggest things "matter" in the PS just as much as they do elsewhere in the amp.

Regards,

Andy

AKSA · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 12:07 pm »

Hah!! I'm baaaaaaaack!!!!!

650 miles in two days - a pleasant experience indeed with my family.....

Toroidals are normally made with a tightly wound strip of insulated steel - like a roll of toilet paper, if you will. These have a tendency to vibrate through magnetostiction, and particularly if there is any DC on the AC mains - which is all too often in these privatised utility days.....

The Japanese developed an amorphous core, something like ferrite, but for lower frequencies, and one lump - no coil. They are sold to toroid manufacturers - the ones I used were made in China and retailed by Altronics here in Australia - and they do not rattle at all.

Electrically they offer no advantage I can either measure or hear. Geoff is right. I have stopped using them in recent times because I buy 33-0-33Vac secondaries on the 300VA trafos from Harbuch in Sydney, and along with these larger toroids I also buy the 160VA trafos, so I've given up on the amorphous trafos, and incidentally have found there to be absolutely no sonic differences.

Cheers,

Hugh

TimS · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 08:07 pm »

Hi

Would I notice any difference sound quality wise if I went for the standard Jaycar transformers (Cat. MT-2114 25+25 Volts) rather than the Harbuch transformers to build the AKSA 55N+?

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=MT2114&CATID=&keywords=mt2114&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=http://

Greg Erskine · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 09:56 pm »

hi TimS,

I buy the Harbuch ones because, they were a similar price (a little cheaper if you manage a discount), better quality, made a few kilometers down the road, offer 3 versions of 25-0-25 160VA but I can't say if they sound better or worse than a Jaycar one. My only Jaycar toriod buzzes, but it's probably a one off.

BTW: That link is to Jaycar NZ?

regards

amplifierguru · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 10:10 pm »

Hi Greg#1,

I used Antrim (amorphous) toroids in my Eidetic amplifiers back in 1989-94, as they were custom made for me by Antrim in Ireland with 4 identical 24V secondaries and twin 120V primaries, before Harbuch snaffled an agency. 300VA was A$26 landed!

I have used the China ones from other sources with no perceptible difference on audition. I think if your amplifier sound depends on toroid material to finesse, you have fundamental design problems.

Cheers,
Greg

TimS · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 10:18 pm »

Quote from: Greg Erskine

hi TimS,

I buy the Harbuch ones because, they were a similar price (a little cheaper if you manage a discount), better quality, made a few kilometers down the road, offer 3 versions of 25-0-25 160VA but I can't say if they sound better or worse than a Jaycar one. My only Jaycar toriod buzzes, but it's probably a one off.

BTW: That link is to Jaycar NZ?

regards

OK, thanks - I live in NZ now so my options are probably limited on what I can buy. However, if there is a discernable difference in buying a better quality transformer (than the Jaycar) I would consider it.

AKSA · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Apr 2006, 10:41 pm »

Tim,

I have never noticed a sonic difference between transformers, but the rattle of magnetostiction can vary from make to make.

The primary differences lie in amp design, components and filter caps.

Go for it!

Cheers,

Hugh

SamL · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 12:04 am »

I am in NZ and use Antrim transformer from Harbuch on my AKSA 100+. Might not be a fair comparison but they are quieter than Plinius SA100 MKII that I used to own. This is on the same house, same power point and same source. Don't get me wrong. SA100 is very silent and I need to be less than 1ft away to hear anything. Is just than my AKSA100+ made even less hum.
Have not tried Jaycar transformer and can't say if they are as good. If I use blackgate cap, fancy resistor and wire in a $800+ diy project, I'll choose Antrim.

Have fun,
Sam

andyr · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 02:51 am »

Quote from: SamL

... I am in NZ .... If I use blackgate cap, fancy resistor and wire in a $800+ diy project, I'll choose Antrim.

Have fun,
Sam

Well said, Sam ... that's it in a nutshell!!

Regards,

Andy

Geoff-AU · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 07:06 am »

Quote from: Greg Erskine

My only Jaycar toriod buzzes, but it's probably a one off.

When I purchased my AKSA I asked Hugh about transformers, and he said the Jaycar items were fine but he had heard of a few that buzzed. Yours was undoubtedly one of them, I was lucky enough to score 2 that are silent. They make a slight hum/buzz on application of power but once the flux has stabilised they are quiet.

Greg Erskine · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 08:36 am »

Quote from: Geoff-AU

I was lucky enough to score 2 that are silent. They make a slight hum/buzz on application of power but once the flux has stabilised they are quiet.

Hi Geoff,

I'm sure the Jaycar toriods are fine and I realise now I should be more careful how I say things. Sorry. I don't remember telling Hugh about it, but it does show how a flippant comment can gather momentum. I bought mine many years ago for a bench power supply so the slight buzzing is not an issue at all. It has worked flawlessly for about 10 years. If I bought it today I would have known to check it and Jaycar would have replaced it no doubt.

regards

rabbitz · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 11:49 am »

Never had a problem with a Jaycar toroidal but a customer did have a loose primary wire on one I got through WES for him which BTW is the same transformer.

All mine have had no hums, rattles etc and sounds or worked no different to the Harbuch or the Altronics ones I've used. I have got one Altronics transformer that has a mechanical buzz but I think that was caused by me tightening too much.

Geoff-AU · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Apr 2006, 01:35 pm »

Some of their stuff is decent. Other products need careful checking during the 7 day returns window

They are just like most other companies out there trying to buy low and sell high. A few returns are par for the course.

/tangent