[Sasha]

I just received PMC FB1+ speakers, and I suspect they may not be the real deal.
I have never seen how FB1+ version looks like, only FB1.
There are differences that may indicate a problem.
FB1 has both drivers flush mounted, the front face of driver's frame is precisely in line with the front baffle.
On my FB1+ drivers that are sticking out, as if they are not flush mounted, although they are, they are just not in the plane of the baffle (aproximately somewhat less than 1mm out).
How are they supposed to be mounted on FB1+?
Next thing is the narrow groove between front baffle and the rest of the box.
On FB1 the collor of the groove is the same as the rest fo speakers, in this case cherry, while on my FB1+ it is black.
What is the collor of the groove on FB1+?
Next, the stickers at the back, just above the terminals, that identify model number and serial number.
On my FB1+ both stickers fell off. One fell off while still in the package, the other fell of a couple of hours after speakers were removed from the package.
Has anyone experienced this? Are they supposed to be a flimsy plastic impregnated paper material?
Finally, the sound.
It is absolutely horrible. I know how FB1 sounds, these FB1+ sound completely different, not just different, but bad in every aspect.
I know speakers are new, but there is no hint of FB1 sound in these.
Bass is detached from the rest of the music, totally out of control.
The overall sound is comparable to a 50$ portable stereo system.

Anyone know what is the PMC return policy for Canada? If these turn out to be real deal, yet continue to produce this kind of sound, no way I am going to keep them.

[Nick1360]

Hi

 I am an owner of PMC FB1+ (had them upgraded from FB1). Cannot answer all your questions at once but will check them against my units tomorrow and post asap.

As to the sound the FB1+ upgrade does sound very different from the original (new units + wadding + crossover unit if I remember right) but is noticeably better and improves still with 'running in'.

[James Tanner]

I just received PMC FB1+ speakers, and I suspect they may not be the real deal.
I have never seen how FB1+ version looks like, only FB1.
There are differences that may indicate a problem.
FB1 has both drivers flush mounted, the front face of driver's frame is precisely in line with the front baffle.
On my FB1+ drivers that are sticking out, as if they are not flush mounted, although they are, they are just not in the plane of the baffle (aproximately somewhat less than 1mm out).
How are they supposed t ...

Hi Sasha,

What dealer did you buy the FB1's from?

james

[Nick1360]

Hi

Have had a look at my FB1+ speakers and here are the results:

1/ Speaker units are flush with the woodwork and are in line with the baffle.
2/ Differences: The FB1 had metal tweeters the FB1+ has soft dome with no front piece. From memory, the midrange unit has (or should have been) swapped out for an upgraded version but it looks are very similar to the old one.
3/ The narrow grove on the baffle is wood. There is a black trim round the bass port.
4/ The sticker on the back are in place – no peeling.
5/ As for the sound, what you say makes me wonder whether they changed the crossover unit as they should. There is also supposed to be a rearrangement of the wadding. If this is not done properly it would affect the bass.

From what you say, the upgrade has not been done well. There is a link on the Bryston site to PMC, I would drop them an email.

[Sasha]

Nick,

You said your PMCs are FB1s upgraded to + version.
I do know how FB1s look like, and that FB1+ should have a new soft dome tweeter, crossover and foam.
The rest, as far as I know, should be the same, yet I see physical differences described, what made me concerned. Not to mention distortions these speakers are producing.
So I did expect you will say your drivers are flush with the baffle, and that groove is the color of the wood.
I am wondering if anyone has new FB1+, not upgraded FB1, so that we could compare looks.

James,

Dealer is McCulloch Audio Video.

[James Tanner]

Hi Sasha,

If the dealer is McCulloch Audio Video they are a very reputable dealer. If you give me the serial numbers of your FB1+ I will confirm with PMC.

james

[Sasha]

James,

SNs are 7861 and 7862.

Thanks.

[James Tanner]

James,

SNs are 7861 and 7862.

Thanks.

Hi Sasha,

The FB1's you have are valid serial numbers. If they are sounding as bad as you say there must be a problem. Can you have the dealer check on his system?

james

[Sasha]

James,

Thank you for the confirmation.
I am not sure what you mean by having the dealer check on his system?

I will be brining in a pair of PMC FB1s from a friend of mine, so we will have a number of ears comparing the differences in sound, real time, having the same room, source and amplification, to make sure I am not imagining things.
That is the same pair I heard with the existing source and amplification, that made me decide to get PMC speakers.

[James Tanner]

James,

Thank you for the confirmation.
I am not sure what you mean by having the dealer check on his system?

I will be brining in a pair of PMC FB1s from a friend of mine, so we will have a number of ears comparing the differences in sound, real time, having the same room, source and amplification, to make sure I am not imagining things.
That is the same pair I heard with the existing source and amplification, that made me decide to get PMC speakers.

Hi Sasha,

I just meant that your reaction to the speakers may be a result of your system choices ( amp, preamp, CD etc.) so having the dealer try them on his system in the store would be a good way to make sure the speakers were OK.

james

[Sasha]

James,

The choice of amplification and source is not the issue.
I have made decision to purchase PMC after hearing FB1 speakers from a friend of mine on my system, identical setup.
The same FB1s will arrive this Sunday, so they will be compared side by side, under the same conditions, and by many ears.
FYI, the system consists of the following:
Rotel RCD 1072 CD player going digital into MF X-DAC V3 powered by MF X-PSU V3. Digital cable is Audioquest VDM-1.
From DAC I have analog out into Korato Ikarus amplifier.
Audio interconnect is Audioquest Diamondback.
Korato Ikarus is tube integrated 2X50W with 2X Ei Nis KT-90 per channel.
Speaker cables are Linn.

[James Tanner]

Sasha  

I believe it is in fact exactly the issue - If the speakers are OK in other setups and sound like a $50 dollar radio in your setup then something is certainly very wrong.

james

[Sasha]

James,

We are not on the same wavelength  
My friend’s FB1 speakers have been heard on my amplification, my source, cabling, as described (my setup).
It sounded excellent, and I decided to buy FB1+ (as it is new model, FB1 is no longer made).
There is no “other” setup. I did hear FB1 with equipment I have.
So FB1+s arrived, I hooked them up to that same equipment and the sound was horrible.
The only difference in this whole story is speakers.
My setup + my friend’s FB1 = good sound.
My setup + new FB1+ = bad sound.

This Sunday my friend is brining in his FB1 speakers, the same ones that sounded good in my setup.
Then we will have my setup with his FB1 and my setup with new FB1+.
We will have side by side assessment, the only variable in the equation will be speakers, FB1 versa FB1+.

[James Tanner]

Hi Sasha,

Yes I understand but it is hard for me to believe the FB1's would sound that much different than the FB1+.
I will be interested to HEAR what the outcome is.

james

[Sasha]

James,

Verdict is not in yet.
I had two PMC/Bryston guys at my place last night, and a pair of older PMC FB1s (not plus version).
My system with FB1 sounded as expected, no issues. We tried to figure out why.
Possible reasons FB1+ does not sound good in my setup:
It presents a heavier load for the amp. It was obvious that the amp had to work harder, as if FB1+ version was less efficient, although on paper the efficiency is the same (for example, to achieve the same level, had to go 1/2 way on amp as opposed to a bit more than 1/3). Or maybe impedance has changed. Due to the new crossover, or the fact speakers are not run in, or who knows what.
Also, FB1+ goes deeper, what also may contribute to the perceived sound quality (they want to be driven with more authoritative amp).
Or maybe equipment synergy – never buy something you do not hear. I had no opportunity to do home work, FB1+ were nowhere to be found for audition.
Then we took FB1+ to a friend of mine and hooked it up to his Bryston gear. That eliminated the main problem, distortions, uncontrolled bass, and a one note boom that appears with some challenging material (e.g. Gary Karr / Adagio D’Albinoni from Cisco).
That may be because of better control by Bryson, may be due to the room.
However, I am not SS guy, Bryston in not my cup of a tea, or any other bi-polar type, cannot live with that. I am after the magic that tubes bring.
At this point I think my options are to get PMC FB1, or look for a tube like SS (some MOSFET amp), or maybe tube pre-amp with Bryston. Going after some extremely expensive tube amp that has a lot of power is not an option. All this assuming that it was not the room that made the main problem go away.
For those that like typical SS sound, FB1+ with Bryson sounds much better, no question about it, so friend of mine will be upgrading his FB1s.
But I am screwed.
Will have to do more investigation.
Having said that, can you recommend Bryston amp that would be good match with FB1+, and if you have heard any, a tube pre-map, that I could audition?

Thanks,
Sasha

[James Tanner]

Hi Sasha,

Thanks for the report. I suspected the amplifier might be the issue.
I would suggest the 3B SST on the FB1's - I have tried the 3B/FB1+ in a number of different rooms and it mates very well indeed.

I am not a fan of tube gear so maybe some of the other forum members would be better at recommeding a tube preamp for you.

james