single driver speakers

chadh · « **Reply #20 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 04:43 pm »

Paul,

Thanks! I've never received so many improptu invitations in my life. Normally I have to beg for invitations.

I'm currently in NC, preparing for a move in a couple of months. I'm not too sure where, though. I do have in-laws in NYC, though, so...

Chad

miklorsmith · « **Reply #21 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 04:48 pm »

I introduced myself to the single-driver theme with the TNT Big Fun Box:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/bfb_e.html

The drivers:

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=8109870.5788&pid=327

I decided I needed something to listen to my Clari-T with, so I built these, plus many tweaks. These are by no means perfect but after I built them I put my Gallo Ref. 3's up for sale three days later. No kidding.

They are by no means perfect, but with the right music they will leave you speechless. They do decent bass down to about 55 or 60 hz and treble is decent, though I'm sure they give something up to the "better" WRD's.

I have primitive woodworking skills, but I pulled these off. I decided to go with a sloped front baffle, which was tricky. Other than that, the only thing that would be easier would be an OB design. I don't recommend OB's with this driver which is really intended for a horn enclosure (a much tougher build).

Cost is a real strength of this program. The drivers will be about $90 ea. delivered and figure another $25 in wood. Everyone that's heard these speakers have commented favorably and I like them quite a bit.
Tip: These drivers take hundreds of hours to fully break in. Order them before you build the boxes and run juice through them while you're building the boxes. Once the speakers are assembled, the break-in process is painful. And, I think I integrated all of the AA tweaks with these speakers and I'd happily give any builders a breakdown of all of them to simplify.

For me, they are the tip of a really special iceberg. Believe it or not, these humble boxes share the magic midrange and coherency of the Zu speakers though with less bass extension, treble purity, and tonal penetration. I'd bet with a pair of small, quick subs, they would be VERY satisfying.

chadh · « **Reply #22 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 06:24 pm »

So, you're telling me that this Big Fun Box demonstrates that even I could DIY some satisfying speakers? Interesting.

Chad

miklorsmith · « **Reply #23 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 06:35 pm »

If you can cut and glue wood, yes. It will take some time though.

For me, these are not "destination" speakers, but they will give you a fair idea of what the buzz is all about.

Scott F. · « **Reply #24 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 07:28 pm »

No need to cut, glue and finish. Parts Express sells prefinished boxes complete with blank front baffles. All you would need to do is cut the holes in the front baffle, insert your port tube and the driver, then run your speaker wires and your done. Doesn't get much easier than that.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=180&raid=44&rak=finished_cabinets

Bill, the DRDs are really special. They're as close to a straight wire as you can get. One power film resistor in the circuit and a transformer and thats it. Not much to upgrade unless you buy silver or cobalt transformers.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #25 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 07:29 pm »

.... and if you want all your money in the driver and none in the box, try these on for size in an open baffle!
http://www.feastrex.com/english/index.html

Bill Baker · « **Reply #26 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 07:40 pm »

Quote

Not much to upgrade unless you buy silver or cobalt transformers.

Agreed, they were not in for any upgrades but rather to be tested after the customer built them. They looked very good on the scope and sounded great in the system.

Too bad Ron won't let dealers build/sell them.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #27 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 07:47 pm »

Google tells me 45 liters for the BFB cabinet = 1.6 cubic feet.

You could do a FE166E driver instead of a 206 driver, which is the same one that Louis used to (still does?) use for the Grande 6r. Many commenters think this is the jewel of the FE line.

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/recom_enclose/166e_enclrev.pdf

Look at the bottom for the BR specs. This driver only needs a box of 15 liters, or about .5 cubic feet which would work great for one of the boxes Scott linked.

The 45 liter box ends up being pretty big.

Scott F. · « **Reply #28 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 07:52 pm »

Hey Bill,

If I give you Lonewolf's credit card number will you finally send me those D2's for review? I'm good for it, I promise, Marbles will even vouch for me

Bill Baker · « **Reply #29 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 08:04 pm »

Quote

If I give you Lonewolf's credit card number will you finally send me those D2's for review? I'm good for it, I promise, Marbles will even vouch for me

If the card is good, the speakers are yours

I'm telling ya Scott, you have to make a trip out here.

I am doing up an Almarro 205 mkII for a reviewer and you would be amazed of how this amp sounds with the D2's!! The review sample will also have a Triode switch that I will installing.

Soooooo many amps, so little time (and funds) for them all.

kyyuan · « **Reply #30 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 09:13 pm »

These are interesting single-driver speakers...not inexpensive, either. Anyone heard of them?

http://www.danielsaudio.com/basic_info_speaker.htm

kfr01 · « **Reply #31 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 10:37 pm »

Quote from: kyyuan

These are interesting single-driver speakers...not inexpensive, either. Anyone heard of them?

http://www.danielsaudio.com/basic_info_speaker.htm

Looks like an old Dynaudio driver in a box. I'm sure it isn't, but those appear to be the most overpriced speakers. Ever.

If that design trips your trigger, try an Adire Extremis in a ported box tuned to 30hz.

http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/ExtremisMidwoofers.htm
http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/Images/ExtremisFR.gif

They sound surprisingly good run full range.

JLM · « **Reply #32 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 12:59 am »

chadh,

Midrange is king and crossovers are evil inventions of marketing hype.

Note that very little music exist below 40 Hz or above 8,000 Hz. With a single driver the sound is coherent, imaging by definition is perfect, and by default the speaker becomes "active" (one amp per driver, which in itself is a huge advantage). You also avoid two different drivers trying to reproduce the same frequency at the crossover point.

I agree with konut, that most "full" range drivers are better termed/used as extended midrange drivers. Lowthers can be too detailed for me (my left brain takes over and the right brain can't enjoy it). Keep in mind that nearly any speaker cabinet affects primarily only the bottom 4 octaves (300 Hz and below).

Beware that most "full" range drivers trade flat response for efficiency and end up sounding thin or colored. This was due to the limited output tube amps that were around when single drivers or horns were the only viable options. High efficiency can reveal all kinds of background noise in your system.

I've been a MLTL fan since the 70's, so the Bob Brines products are perfect for me. IMO the Fostex F200A (definately not your typical Fostex driver) is a very wonderful product. He offers his speakers as plans, panelized cabinet kits, pre-built cabinets ready for drivers/finishing, or fully built. And he is a gentleman to deal with.

You should go visit crazy hillbilly Ed Shilling while you're in NC (see The Horn circle below). They hard to set up properly, but can sound stupid good (Ed's term). Just don't let him take you for a motorcycle ride and check him closely for any sort of weapon.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #33 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 01:07 am »

Quote

Just don't let him take you for a motorcycle ride and check him closely for any sort of weapon.

That crazy ass bike of his looks like a hoot to ride. I could do some serious dirt damage with that.

acresm22 · « **Reply #34 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 02:26 am »

Okay....must respond, if only to add an alternative.

I went the other way, switching from single-driver speakers to a three-way crossover design...the Klipsch LaScala. I use a Handmade Audio 2A3 SET amp, but tried a number of other amps on my DIY single driver experiments. These consisted of Foxtex FE166e drivers in voight pipe cabinets (homemade Abbys, more or less, admittedly lacking Terry Cain's expertise in execution). I also used RS 40-1354 drivers in similar cabinets, and in TC's double voight pipe design on the single driver website.

I readily admit that these single driver efforts probably offered only a glimpse of the true potential (I would love...LOVE...to hear Beauhorn Virtuosos, Rethms, etc.), but one listen to a pair of LaScalas and the single driver Frankensteins were out in the garage. While the SD speakers offered some midrange magic and a rather enticing intimacy with certain types of music, the LaScalas made me realize, in about three seconds, what I'd been missing....true full-range sound with incredible dynamics. And any vocal magic that SD speakers are supposed to have was equaled and/or surpassed...in my system...with the LaScalas.

Maybe crossovers are from the devil, but I like how he used them in the big ol Klippies.

D.

raov1 · « **Reply #35 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 02:32 am »

How are the feastex drivers? Anyone here with the dimension speakers?

http://www.feastrex.com/english/index.html

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #36 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 03:13 am »

raov1 -
have you seen the prices on these things? Only driver I've seen similar in price is the hideously expensive AER from Germany (up to €3450 a pair for something that looks like a Lowther).
Makes a PHY look like something you would mount in your parcel shelf (for all you old enough to remember when a couple of 6X9s in the parcel shelf was HiFi for the car).

Here's a thread with a bit of background on the Feastrex:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70709&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

Scott F. · « **Reply #37 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 03:50 am »

Quote from: acresm22

....but one listen to a pair of LaScalas and the single driver Frankensteins were out in the garage. While the SD speakers offered some midrange magic and a rather enticing intimacy with certain types of music, the LaScalas made me realize, in about three seconds, what I'd been missing....true full-range sound with incredible dynamics. ...

Thats exactly why I bought a pair of Altec A-7's to go along with my Lowthers

raov1 · « **Reply #38 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 04:54 am »

thanks for the interesting info Russell

Folsom · « **Reply #39 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 07:37 am »

I would throw in a Tweeter with the Extremis 6.8's.... I doubt the high and mid range would be that magical with them. I mean 30hz FS.... they just are not sonically designed to be midrange and high producers.

Plus just hope the Extremis are not defective because Adire does not fix their mistake with unfinished drivers or broken ones from them. For that reason I say I would not want to buy any thing they sell, but the driver is impressive.

I am working with some CSS 4.5 FR125S 's at the moment and will have some to say about them hopefully within a week.

Those Dynaudio speakers are so over priced it is not even funny. Those dustcaps with out a doubt are dynaudio, perhaps not every thing is, but the dustcaps with out a doubt are. There are no photos of inside the thing or.... Well there is just no reason I would purchase them. Hell how could you even feel comfortable with out a 6moons review or some thing to let you know they sound good accept through the people selling them?