Zu speaker choice question.....

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madders

  • Jr. Member
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Zu speaker choice question.....
« on: 8 Mar 2006, 11:47 am »
Hi Guys,

I'm currently deciding between going for a pair of Zu Definitions or a pair of Druids paired with a Velodyne DD12 (or 2!)

Which do you think would be the best option. I like the idea of being able to place the sub in the best place for the room, and also the EQ facility will I am sure be useful (although I would be looking to crossover with the Druids at 40Hz) but I wonder how much I would loose by not having the extra "full range" driver of the Definition.

All opinions would be welcome   :)

Thanks,
Steve

miklorsmith

Zu speaker choice question.....
« Reply #1 on: 8 Mar 2006, 03:44 pm »
Having owned the Druids and Defs, and now Def. Pro's, I suppose I'm unusually prepared to answer this question.  Yet, I don't think it's an easy question.

Some listeners find the presence band of the Definitions to be a little hot.  It measured flat in my room, but even so, with aggressive music I found equalizing that band down a few db was preferable to me for hard rock and music that "lives" in that band.  Mellower fare and just about everything else is great without eq.  Bass response of the Def's is wonderful.  It measured and sounded flat in my room to 30 hz and dropped from there.  Despite the claimed extension to 16 hz, I was not able to meaningfully equalize the stock Def's to have meaningful output at 20 hz.  I think my room is a big bass vacuum.  In that room, bass was strong, quick, tuneful, and INTEGRATED.  It was amazingly coherent, and the handoff between the front and back drivers was seamless.  But, it wasn't a kick in the chest.  

The Druids are naturally down a couple of db (I've heard) through the presence band and are less likely to require some type of equalization.  These speakers are incredibly nimble and tuneful and the bass is good down to the rated 40 hz.  That said, it is not particularly impactful.  I would imagine a Velodyne sub (or two) would be tremendously impactful.  This might cause integration problems.  In fact, there's no guarantee they could ever be completely integrated in your room.  If you want to rock the house, that wouldn't matter too much and this might be the better combination.  Also, if you can't sit at least 10 feet from the speakers, you might go this direction.

Consider the Def. Pro's.  They're not much more money, and you can get complete eq. control.  I'm using a TacT 2.2x, which allows complete control over XO properties and frequency response.  I have a wild idea that this could be used as a dipole in the bass region in the right room, but alas, my room is not configured to let me do it.  Zu actually uses a pro driver for the rears that have 4x the output power at 20 hz vs. the stock drivers.  Last weekend, I literally had a door rattling in the doorjamb with infrasonics that I could barely hear.

The only downside to the Pro's is the commitment.  You'll need two amps, an equalizer for at least the subs, and sufficient patience to dial it all in.  But, I think the result could be tuned for ANY audiophile's wet dream.  Me?  I've got a Yamamoto A-08s 45 amp ordered for the front array and an Adcom 555 200wpc SS amp driving the rears.  Can you say magic midrange AND over-the-top bass performance?

You definitely should get Phil's take (213cobra).  He currently owns Druids and Definitions, both with outstanding amplification.  Good luck in your decisionmaking, I don't think there's a bad choice.

Mike

Mags

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Druids and Subs
« Reply #2 on: 8 Mar 2006, 03:48 pm »
I currently run my Druids with a sealed, 3 liter 15" DIY sub based on the Dayton 15" DVC driver. I would recommend you Do Not cross over to the Druids at all, since that takes away what I think is the best feature of the Druids, their lack of a crossover. Instead, run the Druids full range, and roll in the sub below ~45 Hz. The way to do this is to split each channel of the output from your preamp and run the signal to both the sub amp L and R inputs and the main amp L and R inputs. Run the output of your main amp directly to the Druids. Then use the crossover in the sub amp (or an external crossover if your sub doesn't have its own) to dial in the right point to begin augmenting the Druids' bass. I have found 45 Hz to be best in my room.

Mags

  • Jr. Member
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Correction
« Reply #3 on: 8 Mar 2006, 03:52 pm »
Sorry, that's 3 cubic foot for the sub enclosure - 3 liter would be too small to mount the driver!!!

tvad4

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Zu speaker choice question.....
« Reply #4 on: 8 Mar 2006, 05:08 pm »
What's the "presence band"?

miklorsmith

Zu speaker choice question.....
« Reply #5 on: 8 Mar 2006, 05:18 pm »
From the Stereophile Glossary:

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/index.html

"presence range The lower-treble part of the audio spectrum, approximately 1-3kHz, which contributes to presence in reproduced sound."

The range I'm referring to is probably a bit higher - maybe 2khz to 6 khz.

tvad4

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Zu speaker choice question.....
« Reply #6 on: 8 Mar 2006, 05:30 pm »
Thanks.

My owners manual for an Audio Control C-101 III contained an extremely useful frequency band chart that listed specific frequency bands and corresponding instruments or voices which were generally found within the frequencies. It was an enormously helpful chart for understanding what one hears in different frequency bands.

Do you have anything like this? I may try to download the old manual.

miklorsmith

Zu speaker choice question.....
« Reply #7 on: 8 Mar 2006, 05:55 pm »
http://www.tnt-audio.com/topics/frequency_e.html

http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/eq/2.asp

You could Google yourself to death here, I think.

I should have said before, IMO the Definition resolves detail better than the Druid.

tvad4

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Zu speaker choice question.....
« Reply #8 on: 8 Mar 2006, 06:02 pm »
Great links, Miklorsmith. Thank you.

The first is along the lines of the Audio Control C-101 manual (I have just e-mailed AC for a possible PDF of their manual).

madders

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 50
Zu speaker choice question.....
« Reply #9 on: 8 Mar 2006, 09:42 pm »
Many thanks for the replies so far. I think the Pro's are out for me due to the investment needed in amps, eq, setup etc.