Target curves

CornellAlum · « **on:** 6 Mar 2006, 10:53 pm »

I finally took the day off realizing I would never get to the behringer deq2496 otherwise, and have been more or less fiddling with it for the better part of the day. I have read and read about how to set it up, and I am seeing a LOT of conflicting information as to how to set the target curve before applying the auto eq setup procedure. If someone could shed some light as to the target curve, as well as any other real life pointers, I surely would be appreciative. My initial impressions of this thing are quite good.

Thanks!

warnerwh · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 06:27 am »

First of all you do not want a flat in room response. This would not sound natural. You want a boost in the lower region from say 125hz on down of 2-3 db. I also like a bit of boost upto 400hz. Then from about 2khz you'll want a downward slope with possibly a significant dip in the 3-5khz region. By 20khz you should be down about 4-5 db. Ekovalsky once posted the link to an excellent article regarding this subject and it was written for the DEQ 2496.

I give you generalities but you'll have to experiment to see what you like. Once the target curve has been done you can tweak with the Parametric to taste. Also be sure to make the max span(correction) only 5-6 db. Then I reduce the boosts to 2-3 db and leave the cuts alone. You'll find you can tailor the sound to any which way you'd like. Be careful with boosts. Remember that a 3 db boost equals double the power requirement from your amp and speaker. Good luck, love mine and know a number of others who'd not go without one again either.

This piece takes time to learn to use properly. Give yourself at least 2 weeks to get it 90% dialed in. Then a couple of months for 100%.

John Ashman · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Mar 2006, 06:35 am »

Part of how we gauge "natural" is based on the sound of the room, as that is where we normally are. Therefore, if you *entirely* take out the sound of the room, it won't sound like everything else in the room. It's probably a good idea to take out *some* of the room.

CornellAlum · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 02:41 pm »

I think I have the hang of how to use this thing now. Can someone tell nme how to access the sinewave function which Thorsten from AA describes in the setup techniques? Also, did you guys actualy use the BBC dip he describes?

tianguis · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 03:08 pm »

CA:
I messed with a Behringer EQ several years ago, using Thorsten's approach. It was good, but didn't take into account room response, which I never got a handle on.
I'm now using TacT RCS with a curve based on inputs from several folks. It is very similar to the one described by warnerwh. I do use the BBC dip at 2.5 K and it reduces "zing". With the TacT, I can bypass correction on the fly as well as access a bunch of other curves on the fly. The custom one with BBC dip is the fullest and easiest to listen to, based on a number of opinions.
Of course, TacT does take room effect into account.

Regards,
Larry Welsh

warnerwh · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 05:40 am »

CornellAlum: I use the BBC dip only less than recommended. The sinewave function I wasn't aware of. What's it for? I'd like to know how to use it too. Where'd you see a post like this regarding a sinewave function?

One thing to keep in mind is that your ears are the best gauge. Although I recommend using the auto eq function I only use a few db of cuts and a couple db of boosts. The rest is done on the Parametric by ear. As long as it sounds right to you then that's all that matters. I'm just happy something so inexpensive does it's job so well.

CornellAlum · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 12:55 pm »

I read this setup guide written by Thorsten of audioasylum I believe it is. I found it under a yahoo groups file section, and it indicates the best way to implement the peq for bass room anomolies is to enter the fbd section of the behringer and use a sinewave sweep along with a rat shack spl meter to figure out the bass nodes of the room. Then you set the peq using those reults. The best I can get out of the behringer thus far is pink noise. Thorsten refrences using the sinewave feature to do all of this, yet I cannot seem to find the settings to generate said sinewave. I wil keep loking today.

Tweaker · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 01:19 pm »

I thought the BBC dip took a bit of presence away so I do not use it. The sinewave function may be a fuction that was available on the Behringer Thorsten reviewed which is an older model. There is no such thing that I'm aware of in the DEQ2496.

CornellAlum · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 02:51 pm »

Well, that's a bummer. I thought I was just missing something even though I read the manual word for word, understanding very little of what I read

Do you guys have any alternative methods for the bass regions beyond what aeq does?

I suppose I could burn a sinewave to disc and do it that way. I guess I would need a graph or something.

D~

Tweaker · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 08:00 pm »

I ignored the manuals advice on not auto eq'ing the full frequency responce and got very good results. Actually I got phenomanal results, as the sound improvement was way beyond my expectations. There were no major adjustments in either direction but, holy cow, what an improvement.
Some good advice I found on mike placement, to minimize a frequency tilt associated with the Behringer mike and others like it, is to have it pointed toward the ceiling when auto eq'ing.

CornellAlum · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 08:10 pm »

So you just set the target curve and let er' rip then? I will give it a try when I get home.

CornellAlum · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 08:27 pm »

Mamma mia, this thing rocks!!!!!!!!!!

Using Warner's target curve, no BBC dip, and aeq, I am getting fantastic results. I have a few things to tweak, but I imagine I am about 90 % there.

On the AEQ settings, what does max span do? I had it set to 1db and it seems to work well.

D~

zybar · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 09:50 pm »

Quote from: CornellAlum

Mamma mia, this thing rocks!!!!!!!!!!

Using Warner's target curve, no BBC dip, and aeq, I am getting fantastic results. I have a few things to tweak, but I imagine I am about 90 % there.

On the AEQ settings, what does max span do? I had it set to 1db and it seems to work well.

D~

Congrats!

Now you will never go back...

George

Tweaker · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 10:32 pm »

I don't care how much money a person has invested in gear, speakers, room treatments, etc., if you don't have digital equalizer in the chain you are not going to ever hear just how good your system can sound. Perhaps close, but the Behringer and Tact room correction preamps will get you the cigar. The Behringer is an amazing device for the money and has a pretty good DAC built in to boot. My (unmodded) Squeezebox,GW LABs DSP, Behringer Equalizer/DAC combo is producing truly beautiful music.

jonia · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Jun 2006, 06:00 am »

Quote from: tianguis

CA:
I messed with a Behringer EQ several years ago, using Thorsten's approach. It was good, but didn't take into account room response, which I never got a handle on.
I'm now using TacT RCS with a curve based on inputs from several folks. It is very similar to the one described by warnerwh. I do use the BBC dip at 2.5 K and it reduces "zing". With the TacT, I can bypass correction on the fly as well as access a bunch of other curves on the fly. The custom one with BBC dip is the fullest and ...

Hello!
I use the TacT RCS 2,0, but I have some problems getting the perfect results. I have attached the best sounding target curve so far. Do you have suggestions on how to make it sound better? The bass is now good, but the overall sound seems a bit bright, and the vocal just doesn't get the correct sound balance.

Could you post a picture of your current target curve?

Thank you for your help!

Jon

warnerwh · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Jul 2006, 07:01 am »

There are a couple of people here that are well versed with the Tact. Also a user group on Yahoo I believe is there.

I've not used the Tact but if you want to change the balance of the sound I'm sure you can adjust it manually. Here's a great article written for the Behringer and had been posted by someone using a Tact: http://www.prijsindex.net/tmp/room%20acoustics%20and%20eq.html

It doesn't matter which dsp you're using as the information in this article is very valueable and helpful.

Hipper · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Aug 2007, 08:50 am »

(this is an old topic)

There is no question that a flat response isn't musically satisfying, but why?

When the producers of the CD or other music source decided on the finished sound, using monitors in a studio presumably, they must have thought that it was how the music should be.

If we then have a flat response at our listening position (after room correction) we should now hear the music exactly as the producer intended. Surely that's what everybody wants.

So how is it that, by adjusting a bit here and there, we get more satisfying music?

john1970 · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Aug 2007, 10:48 am »

To all AC memebers,

I will be picking up a Behringer DEQ2496 this weekend (sales tax free holiday in MA) at my local authorized dealer. If anyone can PM directions for auto EQ and curve parameters please do. I can't wait to have this unit in my system on Saturday.

Thank you,

John

zybar · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Aug 2007, 12:12 pm »

Quote from: john1970 on 7 Aug 2007, 10:48 am

To all AC memebers,

I will be picking up a Behringer DEQ2496 this weekend (sales tax free holiday in MA) at my local authorized dealer. If anyone can PM directions for auto EQ and curve parameters please do. I can't wait to have this unit in my system on Saturday.

Thank you,

John

John,

The auto EQ only works ok.

Plan on playing around with things manually.

Check out the article that Warnerwh linked above. That will give you a good starting point.

George

Philistine · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Aug 2007, 01:44 pm »

The Home Theater Shack Forum is probably a good stop off point for advice on the use of Behringer products, the two site owners have developed a guide to how to dial in a sub by issuing a manual (the Behringer manual is not very intuitive) and a PC based automated utility.
The utility is the REW (Room Equalisation Wizard), which allows you to automate the entire process via a midi interface. The guy who put this together, John Mulcahy, was the Technical Director for Tag McLaren and a Brit - so the spelling of Equalisation is correct.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-rew-forum/

This is also a good source for info on house curves, but as the forum is HT based they are more interested in explosions and less so on music. I used the REW with a Behringer and an SVS sub, it works exceptionally well.