[James Tanner]

Hey gostan,

I for one, am not trying to bust JT's b@!!s.

Bryston is trying to combat a legitimate problem, protecting their
better above board dealers.
It is their below board dealers that are actually causing the problem.

Anyways, the only problem I have is the effect that the new policy will have on the future of cross-border shopping in the used market.

If I want to sell or buy a post FEB. 06 Bryston (with a warranty) here in Canada
my options have been dramatically reduced.
Look at the Bryston listing on Agon vs, CAM.

That's my main beef.

Hi HPower,

North America is considered one market so a used product out of the US is not an issue.

james

[Levi]

Hi James,

Perhaps you can limit the number of years covered for Bryston products without a proof of receipt from authorized dealer.  The way I see it, it is still a Bryston Product regardless of where you bought it.

ex. 5yrs warranty if there is no proof of receipt from authorized dealers.

I think this is fair.

What do you think?

[James Tanner]

Hi Levi,

We considered a less number of years warranty for no bill of sale but all the research we did indicated that the 20 year warranty was a very important feature of the Bryston customer commitment so it was critical that we maintained it.

And I was really trying to keep the warranty as simple as possible and felt if we had all these 'either -ors' as part of the mix it would just confuse and frustrate people. So the only thing that a customer has to concern themselves with is to keep a bill of sale. Throw it in the packing box and if it ever needs to be serviced everything is in one place.

The other issue that has come to light because of all these discussions is how liberal the Bryston warranty really is. A lot of companies in the hi-end audio business are much more restictive than Bryston. It ranges from 3 year first time owner only warranties to all future resales have to be purchased through an authorized dealer to maintain the warranty.


james

[Sebastiaan de Vries]

A lot of companies in the hi-end audio business are much more restictive than Bryston. It ranges from 3 year first time owner only warranties to all future resales have to be purchased through an authorized dealer to maintain the warranty.

Dear James,

I know James, And that was the thing that put Bryston on a different class. I really don't want to attack you or Bryston, but this whole thing feels so bad

I have my own highend audio modification company in the Netherlands. Daily I'm in contact with a lot of audiophiles over my country. Daily I tell them to skip all the other amplifers and give a listen to Bryston. I can give a thousand of examples about my custommers complaining about warranty issues's or other bad stuff wit other company's. If I tell them that a friend of me send his 18 years old Bryston 4B under warranty to Bryston, and he received it back in less then 3 weaks in a total rebuild conditon without any recite, my custommer is shocked and decided to give Bryston a listen. When I tell him about this, he can see I'm enthousiastic about the product from the bottom of my heart! This is the thing that count! This is that special (call it) X-factor that Bryston has. I think you underestimated that. It is a bad thing to throw that away.

And Again I don't say this to diss Bryston, I don't say this because I think I know it all better. I have all my recites from my own Bryston stuff so personly I don't care!! I'm safe! I say this because my heart says this is a big misstake. The magical thing about Bryston will dissapear. and that all because some grey import dealers messed it up? If you put me a half a day behind google I will find all the illegal dealers in a moment. It is not that hard to track them down.

In my point of view. A warranty issue is not a thing to mess with. A warranty says something about Bryston's trust in theyr own products. The warranty will cover products failures. Warranty has nothing to do with grey import or illegal dealers Warranty has to be a secure and safe thing. And that's how custommer felt with Bryston. Safe!

You can count many bad examples of other company's that have way worser warranty policy's but that is not a reasson why Bryston should follow.

I'm sorry if you feel attackted. It is not by a way my meaning. I believe in Bryston products. I will keep saying that it are the best amplifiers in the world! But it hurts me I can not tell about the great uncondional warranty anymore 20 years is still a great thing. But undconditional is not anymore

I love Bryston, and a product I love I feel committed to. That's why I speak freely here, because I really believe this is not a good thing for the product. I can be totally wrong but this is how I feel.

I can not believe there is no other way to keep control over Bryston dealers then trough the good willing end user...

If this is really not discussible any more I give up and I will be silent about this forever. But if I have any hope there is a change you will reconsider. I will fight for it!!

Best regards,
Bas

[HPower]

Hi James,

Canada and USA as one market, that is exactly what I was going to suggest.
Great minds must think a like.  

You know, it is kind of funny how we as the consumer look at the Bryston warranty.
On one hand you get the best after sales coverage there is in audio and then on the other hand you get one of the most reliable product that usually don't end up using the warranty.

Even if you never have to use the warranty, it is still nice to have the peace of mind that you don't have to worry for at least 20 years.

That is something in this disposable era that we now find ourselves in.

[hanonymus]

If I understand correctly, Bryston wants to eliminate "grey market" vendors.

Now, I'm not exactly sure how the distribution channels work, but is there any way to get a Bryston product other than directly from the factory?

I doubt that any "gray market vendor" would bother selling anything if there was any "middleman" involved. (BTW, who/where are these vendors?)

In other words, I find it hard to believe that Bryston can not control *where* their products are goinig.

So why punish the second hand buyers for something that is really out of their hands but can be easily controlled by Bryston ?

I can think of no other reason for all this except an attempt to cut service costs.

Am I missing something?

All in all, it's a bad idea.

[James Tanner]

I have a question : what about people who knowingly buy from gray marketers - where is their commitment?

james

[Sebastiaan de Vries]

I have a question : what about people who knowingly buy from gray marketers - where is their commitment?

james

There is no commitment by those! But it is always a small group that mess up for the big group of good willing custommers that buys Bryston from the legal way.

I get your frustration, but you punish the wrong group of people. I think it is not even 5% from al the Bryston users that buy it from Grey importers.

Best Regards,
Bas

[skrivis]

I have a question : what about people who knowingly buy from gray marketers - where is their commitment?

james

And just how the hell are people supposed to know they're buying grey market? Does the amp turn pink to indicate this?

Is the dealer it was transhipped to going to tell all his customers that he's selling grey market product? What if he lies to me and says he's authorized?

Why should the customer be penalized when it's a problem between you and your dealers?

Just require your dealers to submit owner info every time they sell a product. If they don't submit info to cover their sales, then they get no more product. You'll readily be able to figure out who's cheating. I know you will, you're smart guys....

Just don't make me do all the work when it's a problem between you and a dealer who is part of your dealer network and that I don't even have any contact with. And don't f*ck people over just because someone lied to them about being an authorized dealer.

The people are buying a Bryston product and _you_ have made your money on it already. There's no problem between you and the customer. They bought a Bryston product and you made money from them.

You're just scared to make your dealers toe the line. Then, when some other dealers whine about grey market, you go after the people least likely to find out about it and strike back.

There are probably a large number of people who will never know they bought an illicit product because it never breaks. In the meantime, your dealers get to do whatever they want. Some will tranship and others will still whinge about it.

This new policy is complete bullshit.

[skrivis]

I have a question : what about people who knowingly buy from gray marketers - where is their commitment?

james

There is no commitment by those! But it is always a small group that mess up for the big group of good willing custommers that buys Bryston from the legal way.

I get your frustration, but you punish the wrong group of people. I think it is not even 5% from al the Bryston users that buy it from Grey importers.

Best Regards,
Bas

Also, they bought a Bryston product and money from that sale went to Bryston. Bryston gets theirs. Sounds like a commitment from the customer to Bryston.

There's just no commitment from Bryston back to the customer. I think that's what James is really saying.

[James Tanner]

Hi Bas,

Sorry but the problem is much larger than 5%- why do you think so many other hi-end manufactures have gone to First Time Buyer Warranties ONLY and a bill of sale for warranty purposes?

james

[James Tanner]

You know what - this has become nothing more than name calling - I think I will bow out.

james

[gostan]

You know what - this has become nothing more than name calling - I think I will bow out.

james

James, unfortunately you have no choice.  

I have no issue with Bryston-still the best warranty in the business.  And, we all know that it is pretty darn easy to figure out who the unauthorized sellers are.

[skrivis]

You know what - this has become nothing more than name calling - I think I will bow out.

james

James, unfortunately you have no choice.  

I have no issue with Bryston-still the best warranty in the business.  And, we all know that it is pretty darn easy to figure out who the unauthorized sellers are.

How do we tell?

[skrivis]

You know what - this has become nothing more than name calling - I think I will bow out.

james

James, unfortunately you have no choice.  

I have no issue with Bryston-still the best warranty in the business.  And, we all know that it is pretty darn easy to figure out who the unauthorized sellers are.

How do we tell?

And why should we have to?

[jethro]

I was afraid that this thread would get a little heated.

Everybody, please  choose your words carefully and show each other the respect that we all deserve. Remember that people will typically interpret  forum postings in the worst possible way if there is any hint of controversy.

Thank you.

[EProvenzano]

You know what - this has become nothing more than name calling - I think I will bow out.

james

James, unfortunately you have no choice.  

I have no issue with Bryston-still the best warranty in the business.  And, we all know that it is pretty darn easy to figure out who the unauthorized sellers are.

Is it really easy to ID the unauthorized sellers? How is it done?

If it's easy to ID the unauthorized sellers, can something be done about it that doesn't affect the consumer?
I'm just curious.

Bryston might choose to handle this in a different way, as they have.  I've already made up my mind about that.

Thanks

[jethro]

Is it really easy to ID the unauthorized sellers? How is it done?

There is a dealer search page on the Bryston website. I wouldn't buy any gear with a date code after 0806 from anyone not listed on the web site. If the dealer claims to be an authorized seller, but doesn't appear on the web site then I would e-mail Bryston and ask them.

Hopefully James will confirm the following:

 I believe that Bryston does not permit internet sales. Therefore, do not buy any brand new gear on the internet. SST gear (with the old non-engraved faceplate should be ok). I always ask for the serial number of the gear in question from the seller and ask Bryston via e-mail for the date of manufacturer before buying the equipment. It's been a while since I have bought used gear,but I hope Bryston still provides this useful service. Please remember that this takes time for them to handle these requests and they don't receive any extra money for this service. Thank you Bryston. If the date code is after 0806 (or Bryston tells you that the date of manufacture is after March 1, 2006  then have the seller fax/mail you a copy of the receipt and check the dealer with Bryston. If this is a confirmed authorized dealer than you are all set, If not Bryston will be able to look into a non-authorized dealer.  If the seller can't provide the receipt or a serial number, then don't buy it. Another amp will come along - be patient.

Most people are usually quite vigilant when making a large dollar amount purchase of any type. The new Bryston warranty is not really requiring anything different from us then what we would normally do when making a purchase of any expensive item.

[Sebastiaan de Vries]

Hi Bas,

Sorry but the problem is much larger than 5%- why do you think so many other hi-end manufactures have gone to First Time Buyer Warranties ONLY and a bill of sale for warranty purposes?

james

Dear James,

I'm sorry then I assume it was only 5%. Then you can say it is a big problem..

Best Regards,
Bas

[bsmith15]

After reading all of the previous posts I did a search on DogPile using just the word "Bryston" and found three web sites on the first page of results that are selling Bryston products well below retail, claiming to be A stock & factory fresh.  A brand new (or stated so) 4B-SST for USD $2,495.  One openly listed that they are not an authorized dealer, that they use an associated dealer network for supply & service and the original manufacturer will not honour any warranty.  They did state that they will duplicate the original manufacturers warranty up to 5 years but only 5 years.  My point is that in order for these businesses to be able to continue to offer products like Bryston they have to have a steady supply; where ever they are getting the goods.  It looks like the problem for Bryston and other manufacturers may be greater than we realize.

I think the real impact on the used market will remain to be seen; how many claimed "market breaking" decisions have we seen for many products that the market just came to accept over time.

Just my $0.02.