Teflon coated CAT 5 - are we at risk?

Malcolm Fear · « **on:** 16 May 2003, 12:44 am »

It appears that heating teflon can lead to Teflon Toxicosis.
Keep your canary away from your soldering station.

http://www.ewg.org/reports/toxicteflon/es.php

AKSA · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 May 2003, 02:17 am »

Mal,

But teflon has a melting point of around 250C, doesn't it, and the high polymer, with carbon/fluorine, is extremely stable? I know that vinyl polymer (PVC) melts at far lower temps, and has, in monomer form, been shown to cause angiosarcoma (liver cancer) after heavy exposure over a period of more than 20 years.

Teflon is used in fry pans, of course, does this have implications for our cooking????

Or are you joking, perhaps???

Cheers,

Hugh

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 May 2003, 03:14 am »

Not joking. There is an article in todays Sydney Morning Herald regarding the problem. Seems to be a lot of dead canaries where the teflon frypan got too hot.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/16/1052885378498.html

EchiDna · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 May 2003, 03:21 am »

assuming this is a 'serious' posting... and personally i have no pet birds to kill so i dont really care, its all consumer advocacy (sp?) gone overboard... BUT

this hits my feild of work, so to keep it relatively simple. Teflon has MANY grades, many different melting points and of course many different constituant parts. these minor components vary a lot and are what produces the different grades, they are also are what produces the toxic offgass components (if any) so depending on how much and what type of secondary parts are in the teflon depends on what is produced.

point 1. the teflon coating on cat 5/ should never be melting anyway as you solder. solder typically melts below 200 degrees and teflon chars at about 250 degrees and melts at about 270 degrees depending on grade. If it melts, you are soldering too slowly! In summary, you breathe in far worse chemicals and far more cancer causing chemicals when you drive a new car or paint your house....

point 2. just how hot do you cook in your fry pan? i don't want to eat eggs cooked at 270 degrees plus. you are talking boiling oil temperatures here.... and deep fryers are normally stainless steel and not teflon lined for a reason.

point 3. if you are stupid enough to leave a frypan on the stove with nothing in it so that it reaches 370 degrees c (as in the article linked) then you deserve to breathe in some nasty stuff

pesonally i always boil water in a new pot or pan for a while and throw it away a few times before cooking in it for this 'offgass' reason.

Oz_Audio · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 May 2003, 05:33 am »

I do all my soldering on the back veranda, about 10 feet from our Budgie who did have his toes pointing toward the sky on the weekend.

I will have to ammend his Head Stone to "Victim to Teflon"

True, he did go on the weekend, but the kids havent noticed yet

Mark

AKSA · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 May 2003, 06:06 am »

Mark,

He probably died of stress watching you solder!!

My commiserations...

Cheers,

Hugh

Larry · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 May 2003, 06:25 am »

I have been lucky/unlucky enough for not being able to find any Teflon'ed CAT5 yet, to start my worries about ...

AKSA · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 May 2003, 07:16 am »

Larry,

I'll bring some when I come to Sydney! How much do you need?

Cheers,

Hugh

Larry · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 May 2003, 01:08 pm »

Quote from: AKSA

I'll bring some when I come to Sydney! How much do you need?

Thank you very much, Hugh, for your kind offer.

I like to use Teflon CAT5 to wire my source switch, for which I have received all relays and got a case (not drilled yet, which is the hardest part for me

) The source switch must be ready before you arrive at Sydney.

I have checked a lot of specs of CAT5 cables available in Oz and could not find any Teflon insulated ones. If you could let me know which brand and model of CAT5 you got, it would be very helpful. Sorry to bug you but I think CAT5 would not be your "Commercial In Confidence"

JohnR · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 May 2003, 04:02 pm »

Hey, I need some too!

Seconded on the where-dya-get-it question

J

AKSA · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 May 2003, 12:11 am »

Larry, John,

The CAT5E I use is Belden 1585A, the 350MHz full teflon monty, and I obtained it in the States through a good friend, Paul Kaplan, who can sniff out a bargain from Florida to Fairbanks.....

(hiya Paul!) I have two 305m rolls in transit on the water right now, but do have about 10 feet spare Paul sent me in a sample. Would this be enough for you and John? Remember, there are four color-coded pairs inside each outer sheath, so one two feet length of this cable gives you four pairs, each pair of two feet.

Stock dealer price in the States is around $US214 per 305m roll. I priced locally through an electrical wholesaler and they wanted $US526.70 (that's $AUD990 including GST!!) for a roll and three months delivery. Hmmm.

Makes you realize how these guys make a good living.......

Cheers,

Hugh

cmscott6 · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 May 2003, 01:48 am »

Hmm... The warehouse of the company I work for sits in front of a metal scrapyard (excuse me "recycling facility"). They regularly have huge piles of cat5e that contractors scrap after a job. Most of these are offcuts and unused. Granted it's sometimes a bit messy in the scrapyard, but I found a twenty foot piece of teflon cat5e. Everyone was so confused as to why I would want it that they didn't charge me anything for it. Might be worth poking around if you folks have such "facilities" in your area. Great source for sheet aluminum for cases as well.

Larry · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 May 2003, 07:53 am »

Quote from: AKSA

I obtained it in the States

Poor Aussies ...

even a cable ...

the brother ...

Can you please bring me a couple of feet? I swear I will put them at critical paths.

AKSA · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 May 2003, 08:24 am »

Larry,

It would be a pleasure.........

Cheers,

Hugh

Seano · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 May 2003, 02:06 am »

Two things........

One.
The only local Oz distributor that I found with 1585A described as available on their site was Black Box (http://www.blackboxoz.com.au/products/products.asp?Page_Group_Id=1419) but no price mentioned.

Two.
How can you tell if the Cat5 pairs you have (or better yet I have) are covered with Teflon, FEP, HTPE, non stick stuff or whatever you call it as opposed to the other stuff (PVC, HDPE, cling wrap, duct tape?). Please don't tell me you have to try setting the insulation on fire.......

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 May 2003, 03:25 am »

You don't need to set it on fire, just hit it with a soldering iron. If it doesn't melt it is the teflon type.

AKSA · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 May 2003, 03:31 am »

Seano,

Mal's right. Hit it with your hot iron......... If it melts, it ain't teflon.

And teflon is REAL slippery, and you can't strip it with your teeth.

You have to use a razor blade!

Cheers,

Hugh

Larry · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 May 2003, 04:22 am »

Quote from: Seano

One.
The only local Oz distributor that I found with 1585A described as available on their site was Black Box (http://www.blackboxoz.com.au/products/products.asp?Page_Group_Id=1419) but no price mentioned.

Following quote from BlackBox.

1) Belden 1585A: $863 ex GST for 305m + $20 (Freight) : $3.18/m (in GST);

2) another unknown brand solid core Teflon CAT5e: $550 ex GST for 304m + $20 (Freight) : $2.06/m (in. GST).

Both are available in 8 days.

For comparison, solid core non-Teflon CAT5e from Jaycar is $1.15/m (in GST).

A story to share.

Before I told him (BlackBox staff) why I was after Teflon cables, he told me that the idea of a Teflon cable is to resist the fire and it would not release toxic stuff in case of fires. @#$%^&* (I guess that's the previous wisdom on Teflon) Then I told him I would use it for audio applications. There was a little pause before the conversation continued.

PS. Thank Seano for the info on BlackBox.

AKSA · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 May 2003, 06:27 am »

Larry,

You have uncovered an interesting mentality here.

1. Australian importers believe they are doing something very clever by importing with huge markups. I know that this merchant paid around $US214 for the CAT5E cable in the States - that's around $AUD325, and he transported it to Australia a lot cheaper than I do because he doubtless used a container with lots of other goods.
The truth is, Australia is now an import culture, and almost nothing of what we use is genuinely priced because in Australia we cannot see the manufacturers pricing structures. And so we are at their mercy....

2. Mention audio, and immediately brand yourself a nutter. Audiophiles are all mad, these guys know that of course, because we will pay ANYTHING for THE GOOD SOUND!!

And the unscrupulous ones know that with a little snake oil, most of us can be persuaded, and we will pay almost any aksing price.

THIS HAS BEEN MY MOTIVATION FOR BRINGING DECENT PRODUCTS TO THE MARKET AT AFFORDABLE PRICES.................

Sorry, lecture over, got carried away!

Cheers,

Hugh

Seano · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 May 2003, 07:25 am »

Quote from: AKSA

Mal's right. Hit it with your hot iron......... If it melts, it ain't teflon.

And teflon is REAL slippery, and you can't strip it with your teeth. You have to use a razor blade!

According to that criteria then I suspect I have about 40 metres of the stuff (8 pair Cat5) sitting in a cupboard nearby which is redundant wiring from a network. Of which I'v'e used about half a metre in my 100W Nirvana. Didn't cost me a cent. Cool.