[BradJudy]

I haven't followed this thread closely, so forgive a couple of dumb questions.

From taking a few of my own items apart, and seeing innards online, it seems like most AV power filtering units use a combination of chokes and caps to do their filtering work.  Is this project just about building your own and what parts to pick, or is there something more novel here that I'm missing? 

Here's another example of choke/cap innards.  This one happens to be a PureAV PF60, but I think the comparable Monster product looks very similar inside:



Of course, it has MOVs, relays for delayed power and a control board for the relays and other features (like the voltage/current display).

[Occam]

Brad,

I can't speak to the Belkin conditioner, but I do have a Monster HTS 3500 Mk II. It has a similarly sophisticated multi stage independent filter architecture. I wonder why with this complex implementation, its performance is IMO, so mediocre in comparison to a Felix. I can take a single filter Felix and outperform my Monster (in my system). Dunno why. [Please, for those who love their Belkins/Monsters whatever, I've no doubt that they're just the cat's pajamas in your system] If I had to take a WAG, I'd hazard that their inductive elements are mediocre, at best. They also don't use bypass capacitors. I'll certainly admit that these commercial boxes look very impressive both inside and out. I use my Monster as a big powerbar that will hopefully provide surge protection via its multitude of varistors. I does improve my video system a bit. Realize that a substantial portion of its build cost is devoted to surge protection, sequential turn on, a spiffy meter, and a really well finished chassis. I certainly couldn't build anything near that complexity or features for anywhere near their street prices, or their retail list prices, for that matter. And building a multi independent filter Felix is going to run at least $25/independent filter, and that's using cheesy (RadioShack) chassis. In reality, if a commercial product were built with the Felix recommended components, put in a reasonable chassis, it would retail for substantially more than the Monster/Belkin type products, even without the bells and whistles they offer. Why do think power conditioning products from Blue Circle, Audience, Running Springs, etc... are so dang expensive? I don't believe economy of scale accounts for all of the disparity.

FWIW,
Paul

[BradJudy]

I certainly understand the differences in features and money into components, I just wanted to make sure I understood that the filtering concepts in use are the same and I wasn't missing something with the Felix design.  Clearly one can build a Felix with multiple levels of caps, select chokes, etc while skipping the bells and whistles of the Belkin/Monster.  FWIW, my Tripplite Isobar is similar to the filter/MOV section of the Belkin/Monster. 

I guess I was partially curious if I missed something since people seemed to get excited with who thought of what piece and I said to myself "Who thought of what?  Isn't this the approach most power filtering products use?"  Not to belittle the project, just that I wasn't sure if I missed something special. 

[JoshK]

I used to have a Monster 2500 I think.  It has delayed turn on and switched outlets that follow other outlets, which is incredibly nice if you are using a pre/pro that has remote off but the rest of your gear doesn't as you can plug the pre/pro into the control outlet and when you turn it off, the rest of your gear will also be turned off.   A very nice feature.

I sold my Monster, prior to becoming a diy'er, because I had upgraditis.  I have often wanted to take one of these full featured PC's and rip one of their filters out and replace it with a Felix and then compare to a raw Felix and one of the stock filters.  If the rest of the "features" didn't degrade the Felix's performance then that might make a really nice platform for a full featured and efficacious PC.

[JoshK]

In that inductor shown in the PureAC, I only see two leads, which makes me think it is a standard inductor not a CMC.  Am I just not seeing the other two leads?  It seems that one of those PureAC units would be easy enough to mod.   

[Martyn]

This looks like a worthwhile project that a non-EE such as myself can be pretty sure of completing successfully. At the risk of blurring this thread slightly with the Felix/SB thread, since I'm using an SB3 straight into an AKSA 100+N power amp, should I build a single Felix as per Occam's 17A choke and run both the SB and AKSA from that, or should I build two Felixes - Gary's lower current version for the SB and Occam's for the AKSA? Thanks for your patience with these kinds of questions,

Martyn

[kyrill]

lol do i dare to post in such a heavy loaded EE topic?
as a non EE i would recommend 2, especially as the SB3 is a digital device
I suppose the filter works 2 way
it may isolate in a way the digital gremlins from the SB3  away from the analogue line?

[Occam]

Martyn,

I'd go with kyrill's suggestion - horses for courses

[tanchiro58]

Hi Paul,

What is your suggestion of the Felix for any DAC and/or preamp? I am planning to build one Felix for the Promitheus DAC and another one for Promitheus Apollo preamp. Is it possible to build a Felix for a tube amp too? Thanks in advance.

Tan

[Martyn]

Thanks. Although it seems quite logical to me that a single unit capable of handling the combined current draw should suffice, I had a nagging feeling that the filter characteristics might be different.

I assume that there would be no problem with housing both units in a single box and connecting them in parallel to a single 120V wall outlet?

[Gordy]

I assume that there would be no problem with housing both units in a single box and connecting them in parallel to a single 120V wall outlet?

An elegant solution, Martyn, and that's how the high brow units like Audience, Running Springs and Isotek are built.  Of course, they parallel 4, 5, even 6 receptacles.

[jhm731]

I assume that there would be no problem with housing both units in a single box and connecting them in parallel to a single 120V wall outlet?

Why not install the Felix inside your amp, then you don't need to waste money on an AC outlet.

For the SB, you could take the wall wart apart and house it and the Felix in a box, hard wire an AC power cord to
it and eliminate another AC outlet.

[BradJudy]

In that inductor shown in the PureAC, I only see two leads, which makes me think it is a standard inductor not a CMC.  Am I just not seeing the other two leads?  It seems that one of those PureAC units would be easy enough to mod.   

I don't know - I don't own one and was just using the image as an example.  You might be right, they might not be CMC's. 

I'm putting together a Mouser order anyway, so maybe I'll try a Felix.  It looks like Mouser doesn't stock the 8100 series, but they do stock the 7100 series (similar, but rated at <=5A). 

Are most folks using polypropylene caps or polyester?

[tanchiro58]

Are most folks using polypropylene caps or polyester?

Hi Brad,

I believe they are Vishay film caps. Here is the link from Gary (GBB) to find parts at digikey:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50284.0

[BradJudy]

I believe they are Vishay film caps. Here is the link from Gary (GBB) to find parts at digikey:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50284.0

Thanks for the link - it looks like he's using polypropylene.  Vishay X2 film caps come in both polypropylene and polyester. 

[tanchiro58]

It looks like Mouser doesn't stock the 8100 series, but they do stock the 7100 series (similar, but rated at <=5A). 

Brad,

Here is another link you can get JW8120 at Newark (it is cheaper):

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=63K4088&CMP=AFC-TL10000001

[BradJudy]

Brad,

Here is another link you can get JW8120 at Newark (it is cheaper):

Thanks - I saw them on Newark.  I just already have a Mouser order building, so I thought I'd see if I could just throw a few items into the cart. 

[Martyn]

Thanks, Gordy, I was thinking of adding a third line in case I should ever want to add a Transporter (which I assume would draw more than an SB) or an external DAC.

...and thanks jhm, but there's not enough room in the amp's chassis (see http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=933&pos=1). I like the idea of putting the wall-wart inside the box. I'll give this some more thought...

[StuntHunt]

I'm about to embark on my first Felix.  Thanks, Gary, for posting the parts info.  That was a great help.  As a newbie, I'm still learning my concepts.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, but as I understand it, the Felix does this: the cascading caps filter the "noise" out of the power supply, each value cap handling different frequencies.  The CMC smoothes out the power, and the second group of caps further filters the noise, providing your audio system with very clean power.  The amount of current the Felix can handle depends on the value of the CMC (and your main fuse).

I intend to build two parellel Felix's, one for my McCormack DNA1 Rev. A power amp (which draws 175 watts at idle, and 600 watts at full throttle), and one for the components.

I'm planning on installing a 10a breaker on the mains, and 1a fast blo fuses dedicated to each group of caps.  Just to be safer (can't have enough of that), I'll run all this off a GFI outlet.

All the electrical parts are available from Digikey, including the JW Miller 8120-RC 17a Common Mode Choke  ($12 ea.).  The caps are 1uf ($3.29 ea), 0.1uf ($.77 ea), and 0.01uf ($.77 ea).  That, plus a suitable box (still looking) and misc. fuse holders/wiring/plugs/outlets, and I'm ready to go.

If I'm missing something here, any and all advice is most welcome!

[Gordy]

I've been using these Heeger extruded aluminum cases http://www.lmbheeger.com/products.asp?catid=68  for various projects and love 'em.  The EAS-400 is plenty large for two Felix's if you're using cords for your outlets, otherwise the EAS-500 will fit a double receptacle on the end cap.  For inexpensive cases, Rat Shack carries at least three project boxes that'll work!