Great Speakers for a small room... Salk vs. SP Tech vs. ?

Carlman · « **on:** 26 Jan 2006, 10:07 pm »

Well, I'm planning my year of upgrades and was thinking I should 'step up' the ladder of speaker refinement. I still like what I have, the Usher X-718's with Response Audio's silver and oil reference upgrade. But I am interested in getting just a little more refinement.

I'm using the TacT 2.0RCS preamp and 2150S 150wpc amp. I'm seriously considering getting these fully modified by Aberdeen. I'm using an audio PC as a source.

The electronics suit my tastes, as do the speakers. So I have no reason to change. And, I may not.... I have other things on the want/need list that might have to come first. But, I figured this might be a worthwhile discussion anyway.

Since I seem to do everything zybar does

, I figured the Salk HT3 might be a good option to investigate. However, I only have an 11x13' room. (It's dedicated, and I have plans for better room treatment under way.)

So, I'm thinking of large monitors rather than large floorstanders... Like the HT1. Or the SP Tech Continuum 2.1. I heard the 2.0 at a NY mini-rave and really enjoyed them... except the highs seemed a tad dry. However, the tweeter upgrade apparently sweetens them a bit... so, they may just be perfect for 'ultra-refined' and realistic sound.

I don't want to spend more than 4,k... and every k less is great. It just seems that you can find a lot of 'really good' speakers for around 1,k but then there's a big jump to 5,k... and up for 'really great' speakers.

I want 'great' and not 'really good'. I also want great bass reproduction... not just volume but detail. I'm spoiled on good bass with my current speaker... Now I want 'great' bass.

The new speakers should allow me to be an audiophile and a music lover at the same time. I want to catch details here and there and pick things out.. .and enjoy the great imaging... but I don't want the details forced at me. I want my cake and to eat it too... and at 2-5,k in a monitor, I feel I should be able to.

So, even regardless of price, what do recommend for a small room that gets bass correct, isn't too 'hot' in the highs and upper midrange, and has a natural, musical sound that is very transparent?

I'm not discounting Revel, B&W, or mainstream brands either... I'm open to any suggestion but I'd be interested to hear WHY you recommend a speaker given the criteria.

Marbles · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Jan 2006, 10:14 pm »

With the TACT, it seems like you could get the HT3's and reduce the room gain some, to suit your tastes....

ctviggen · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Jan 2006, 10:23 pm »

I agree with Marbles.

dwk · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Jan 2006, 10:33 pm »

Well, it might not be what you're looking for, but for a small room I think the ACI Sapphire XL's would be an interesting contender, although you might need to augment with a sub if you want 'great bass' for HT or large-scale orchestral type music. I don't really feel the 'need' for one, but most of my critical listening is along the line of smaller-scale acoustic material.
I am using the XL's in a tiny room set up basically nearfield. They are toed in so that the main axes cross in front of the listening seat which helps to minimize early sidewall reflections. Performance is wonderful - imaging and soundstaging are exemplary, and I really do think they hit that oh-so-elusive goal of 'relaxed but detailed' presentation. The details are there, but not in-your-face, and they're mellow-ish but not artificially romantic.

I'm driving them with my homebrew modified Panny XR-25, the mod being battery power. While I haven't heard the Tact stuff, the Panny uses the same basic technology and I would surmise that tonally they might be similar. When run from my Llano A-100 though, I think the XL's tip over into 'overly warm', but then the A-100 is known as leaning to the 'dark' side.

I don't know how attempting to augment with a sub might change these qualities. I am progressing on some sort of bass solution, but I'll likely use my PC (the only source I use) to do the xover digitally. I'm refining my options on that score at the moment.

Marbles · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Jan 2006, 10:37 pm »

While slightly out of your price range, the Ridge Street Audio Sason LTD is a Special speaker.

The imaging and layering go beyond what I have heard with ANY other speaker.

Definately worth an audition if you get the chance.

bixby · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Jan 2006, 10:44 pm »

I would suggest auditioning the Timepiece 2.0. Edited - With the new tweeter. I have heard a lot of speakers. I even had the Salk monitors in my home. The SP Timepiece 2.0 is very good dynamically, flat, smooth, and goes deep. That said, it will reveal all of the upstream chain. I even hear profound differences in all wire and cordage changes including component supports, but I guess all really good contenders will do that.

I did not hear very many near the price of the Timepieces that I would consider over them. Some other considerations:

I did like the Aures at RMAF but they were 10k. The smaller Aures monitors might be nice, I did not hear them. The Daedalus were very nice for the money as were the Reimer wind rivers. In fact if I had to narrow it down, I think the Reimer McCullochs might be on my short list for a monitor sized speaker based on how well the Wind Rivers sounded.

Good luck!

Carlman · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:08 am »

Thanks for your thoughts... A couple of quick points and I'm off to bed...

The problem I've had with larger speakers in a small room is they don't blend well... they need more space to breathe and turn into an area of sound... I may get a chance to hear the HT3's locally so, I may get to experiment and see...

No sub and great bass are a priority if I change. My Usher's go down to 40Hz with no problem but I'd like to get into the low 30's if possible to get a little more realism in the bass.

Thanks again!

-Carl

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:19 am »

The Geddes Summa is also just barely out of reach (<$5k) Geddes specialized in small rooms. The SP Tech employs the same concept though perhaps not for the same explicit reason.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:21 am »

Hey Carl,

Quote

Since I seem to do everything zybar does ...

[/list:u]

***Found it..."Musica Bella" speakers....check Bill's website.[/list:u]

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:34 am »

Quote from: bixby

I would suggest auditioning the Timepiece 2.0. Edited - With the new tweeter. I have heard a lot of speakers. I even had the Salk monitors in my home. The SP Timepiece 2.0 is very good dynamically, flat, smooth, and goes deep. That said, it will reveal all of the upstream chain. I even hear profound differences in all wire and cordage changes including component supports, but I guess all really good contenders will do that.

I did not hear very many near the price of the Timepieces that I would cons ...

Carl has heard my SP Tech Timepiece 2.0's...at my Rave at Daniel's...heard the "old" tweeter, not the new "improved" one..

Bill Baker · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:47 am »

Quote

I'd be curious about the speakers Bill Baker is coming out with...prices look good, and you know his work on your Usher crossover's...maybe check into them.

Thanks LW, the recommendation is truly appreciated. I have already spoken to Carl about this and he desire for reaching into the 30's takes the Bellas out of the running.

Quote

Carl has heard my SP Tech Timepiece 2.0's...at my Rave at Daniel's...heard the "old" tweeter, not the new "improved" one

He really needs to hear the "new" tweeter. The Bellas use the same tweeter and Waveguide as the original Timepiece but based on my lenghty conversations with those who have heard both versions, the new tweeters are simply amazing. I'll have the Continuums with all the upgrades here soon enough.

JoshK · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 03:02 pm »

Quote from: ooheadsoo

The Geddes Summa is also just barely out of reach (<$5k) Geddes specialized in small rooms. The SP Tech employs the same concept though perhaps not for the same explicit reason.

My understanding is that Geddes' pricing isn't set in stone yet. I think if some of the pro orders comes through the price will drop. It even says something to this tune on his website.

zybar · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:20 pm »

Quote from: Carlman

Thanks for your thoughts... A couple of quick points and I'm off to bed...

The problem I've had with larger speakers in a small room is they don't blend well... they need more space to breathe and turn into an area of sound... I may get a chance to hear the HT3's locally so, I may get to experiment and see...

No sub and great bass are a priority if I change. My Usher's go down to 40Hz with no problem but I'd like to get into the low 30's if possible to get a little more realism in the bass.

Thanks again!

-Carl

Carl,

Get in touch with me and I can discuss how well the TacT and HT3 combo perform.

George

ctviggen · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:29 pm »

I don't see where Carl would have problems because of having a too-large speaker in a small room, given that the TACT can adjust levels. The TACT would take care of the boominess/overbearing nature of the large speakers. I do think the SP Techs look interesting too. Perhaps a shootout is necessary?

Bill Baker · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 04:55 pm »

Quote

I don't see where Carl would have problems because of having a too-large speaker in a small room, given that the TACT can adjust levels.

I agree 100% with this. I think the bigger issue is he does not need [may not need] any more than the Timepieces. Given the room size, I beleive the Timepiece with it's single 8" driver would move plenty of air and reach down plenty far enough (probably mid 30's?).

He could then take the difference in price and use this for any options he may want to incorperate into the speakers.

Power demands will not be an issue with either speaker as he will be driving with plenty of current to make the Timepieces or Continuums sing.

Obviously the Continuums would do exceptionally well in this room with the DACT correction. It will boil down to what Carl wants in the end.

For myself, I am becoming a big fan of bigger speakers that take less effort to drive. Butthen again, my taste changes with my moods. I have to keep an open mind in my position as my taste and preferences are not the factor here. It's the end user that matters.

Just my 2 cents.

zybar · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 05:57 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

I don't see where Carl would have problems because of having a too-large speaker in a small room, given that the TACT can adjust levels. The TACT would take care of the boominess/overbearing nature of the large speakers. I do think the SP Techs look interesting too. Perhaps a shootout is necessary?

You are correct sir!

I think I know how to solve this:

1. Get Bob tend me a pair of SP Techs
2. Al to send me a pair of RAW HT8's
3. Robert to send me a pair of Sasoon's

Quit my day job and spend the next 3-6 months comparing all the speakers in my listening room.

What do you think?

George

Rick Craig · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 06:07 pm »

Quote from: Carlman

Well, I'm planning my year of upgrades and was thinking I should 'step up' the ladder of speaker refinement. I still like what I have, the Usher X-718's with Response Audio's silver and oil reference upgrade. But I am interested in getting just a little more refinement.

I'm using the TacT 2.0RCS preamp and 2150S 150wpc amp. I'm seriously considering getting these fully modified by Aberdeen. I'm using an audio PC as a source.

The electronics suit my tastes, as do the speakers. So I have no reason ...

Come over and take a listen to a new speaker that I'll have ready in a week or so

ctviggen · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 06:12 pm »

George,

Sounds good to me. While you're at it, could you also order some DLP and LCD front projectors in the 2-6k range and report back?

Carlman · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 06:49 pm »

I was planning a trip to NYC to visit some fellow audio-buddies in the next few months. Maybe there will be a rave in the next few months? I'd like to hear the Timepiece's again... I wouldn't mind hearing some of what Phil has... (FocusAudio) and definitely would love to hear George's setup if he would be willing.

Maybe we could do an 'audio crawl'? It's easier to move people than gear sometimes.

Well, that's my thoughts... thanks again for the participation. I hope we can work something out for a visit. I'd really like to see the gang.... and of course have some hifi fun.

-C

zybar · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 06:59 pm »

Quote from: Carlman

I was planning a trip to NYC to visit some fellow audio-buddies in the next few months. Maybe there will be a rave in the next few months? I'd like to hear the Timepiece's again... I wouldn't mind hearing some of what Phil has... (FocusAudio) and definitely would love to hear George's setup if he would be willing.

Maybe we could do an 'audio crawl'? It's easier to move people than gear sometimes.

Well, that's my thoughts... thanks again for the participation. I hope we can work someth ...

By the end of February I will be up in Mass. but you are always welcome to visit.

George