Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?

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tonyptony

Opinions, please. Note that I am not a camp joiner. I am selecting the AVA 550 because I heard an earlier version of it on the same speakers I own, from a friend who has now had the amp for a long time. He is still as happy as a clam so I have confidence that I will be as well (he and I have similar tastes in music and simlar "sonic triggers" - we know what we like and we can usually hear it). A Pass X1 is an opportunity for me that I have been looking forward to outside of the thought of a FetValve. That opportunity has presented itself.

I have every expectation that Frank's pres are stunning achievements as well, but a tube preamp is not a choice for me. It must be SS. Having said that how do you all think a X1 will mate with a FetValve?

ricmon

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #1 on: 23 Jan 2006, 10:40 pm »
I have never heard the X1 but since you are joining the AVA club check out the Trancender line of preamps as they are not tubes but hybrids.  And I have heard it (in fact I own one) and can say it sounds damn good.

tonyptony

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #2 on: 23 Jan 2006, 10:49 pm »
ricmon, I know of the Transcendence line, but let me state again that I will go with a SS preamp only. No tube or hybrid pre's for me.

skrivis

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Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #3 on: 24 Jan 2006, 01:17 am »
Quote from: tonyptony
ricmon, I know of the Transcendence line, but let me state again that I will go with a SS preamp only. No tube or hybrid pre's for me.


Then look at the OmegaStar preamps. I bet they'll beat the Pass stuff.

Nelson Pass just gets way too whacked-out for my tastes. :)

MarkM

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #4 on: 24 Jan 2006, 11:49 pm »
Quote from: skrivis

Then look at the OmegaStar preamps. I bet they'll beat the Pass stuff.

Nelson Pass just gets way too whacked-out for my tastes. :)



He is just passionate about designing gear properly.   Kind of like Frank I guess.   If that is whacked out then......

skrivis

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Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #5 on: 25 Jan 2006, 12:22 am »
Quote from: MarkM
Quote from: skrivis

Then look at the OmegaStar preamps. I bet they'll beat the Pass stuff.

Nelson Pass just gets way too whacked-out for my tastes. :)



He is just passionate about designing gear properly.   Kind of like Frank I guess.   If that is whacked out then......


Pass is into creating cool stuff, especially cool circuit topologies. Function has very little to do with it. Yep, that's whacked-out. :-)

tonyptony

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #6 on: 25 Jan 2006, 12:24 am »
But skrivis, do you feel there is something about the sound of Pass equipment that is not ideal?

skrivis

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Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #7 on: 25 Jan 2006, 02:28 pm »
Quote from: tonyptony
But skrivis, do you feel there is something about the sound of Pass equipment that is not ideal?


Well, I've listened to Threshold and Pass Labs stuff a few times, and it never seemed really _bad_, but it never seemed to be that great either. It definitely didn't seem to be a good value for money.

I think that whole business of 15 bazillion output devices, amplifier/arc welder was rather wacky. Pass was right in there with ML, Krell, and Rowland. I also think Pass's Zen stuff is wacky too. And then there's El Pipe-o. :)

Frank's approach, in the main, seems to be to take a relatively simple, well-proven and well worked-out circuit and make it perform as well as possible. Some of the other designers get overly complex. I feel that AVA equipment performs as well or better than anything else on the market, is less expensive than a lot of other equipment, and it's very robust. (Partly because it's less complex so there's less to break.)

Frank's use of MOSFETs might be a good example. Transistors are more linear than MOSFETs. But, in order to use transistors, you need to add a whole lot of circuitry to keep them from destroying themselves. Then you add more circuitry to keep the protection circuits from producing audible effects. You finally wind up with wildly expensive equipment, and I don't see that you get better performance.

It seems to me that it's better to choose MOSFETs and get them working within their linear area of operation. Good MOSFET amps sound, to me, as good or better than anything else around, and they're a lot simpler. The designer can spend their time making a few things right, rather than spreading themselves out making a whole batch of things right (and maybe not having enough time to do a great job).

Another example:  Hmmm... then we want to eliminate coupling caps, so we'll add a bunch of stuff to keep DC from appearing at the output and destroying your speakers. So we add lots of complexity to do what a simple capacitor does perfectly well.

Nelson Pass is obviously a very talented engineer (probably at or near the genius level), but I think he enjoys engineering too much. :) He gets a neat idea for a new circuit or topology and runs with it. It's really cool, and he comes up with really cool stuff. But I'm not sure it's objectively better, although it is really cool. :)

I wouldn't tell anyone to absolutely not buy Pass gear, but I'd say that you can do much better for your money with AVA.

Does that explain it?

G.Michael

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #8 on: 25 Jan 2006, 04:01 pm »
Yes, I think a Pass X1 would mate well with an AVA 550.  In my experience, AVA amps need not be driven by AVA preamps in order to sound good, and AVA amps are not difficult to drive.  I've used AVA power amps with solid state, passive, and tube-hybrid preamps... sounded good with all of 'em!

MarkM

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #9 on: 25 Jan 2006, 04:05 pm »
Quote from: skrivis
Does that explain it?...



Nope.  

I think there might be good synergy with the AVA amp and pre.   Although skrivis is one of the biggest chearleaders for Frank and all other gear is not worthy, I think you should give Franks T7 a listen.  

He clearly states and believes in his 30 day guarantee, you just might keep it.

cdorval1

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #10 on: 25 Jan 2006, 07:46 pm »
skrivis--

I share your conclusion about Frank's equipment.  You stated it very articulately--it'd be great if we could live by this same guideline.  Keep it simple, focus on what is important (the music), use excellent design, careful layout and the best parts you can get.  Notice how Frank inevitably describes his equipment in terms of the music.  It is designed and built ultimately for the music's sake, not just for engineering's sake.

Thanks!

Craig

avahifi

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Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #11 on: 25 Jan 2006, 09:47 pm »
If you want solid state, I really think either our OmegaStar SL (straight line) or OmegaStar SL (bigger chassis, tone controls, more bells and whistles) would be great sounding with your amplifier.

Remember we do offer a satisfaction guarantee and these units are pretty inexpensive in the overall scheme of things.  ($599 base price for the SL, $899 for the EC).

Frank Van Alstine

tonyptony

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #12 on: 25 Jan 2006, 10:33 pm »
Well, the thing is I already own the Pass X1, so that's the pre that I'm going with in this situation.

skrivis

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Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #13 on: 26 Jan 2006, 04:00 pm »
Quote from: tonyptony
Well, the thing is I already own the Pass X1, so that's the pre that I'm going with in this situation.


Ah, ok. Your original post had me confused. As for the 550, it _is_ a hybrid amp. Do you want that, or do you want SS?

Do you actually need the power of the 550? You might be able to save yourself some money by choosing the 350. One of the OmegaStar amps might also suit your needs quite well. (Chairguy did an interesting review of an OmegaStar amp on this site that's well worth reading.)

I don't see that there would be any issues with using AVA gear with a Pass X1. AVA gear, to me, seems to be quite transparent, so what goes in is what goes out. I don't see that there's any "synergy" to using all AVA equipment, other than giving you a very transparent electronics chain.

Some people, especially some reviewers, try to blend a bright amp with a dark preamp, or yin and yang, or something like that. I really don't see AVA gear as being additive or subtractive in that way.

So, yes, I think an AVA amp would work well with your Pass X1 preamp.

Disclaimer:

I own a number of AVA pieces, so take into account that I'm a happy customer and allow for any ensuing bias. I find AVA equipment to be a very good value for money, and to have excellent quality and sound. When I see other equipment that is far more expensive and doesn't perform any better (or even as well), I would certainly say that the other equipment doesn't measure up to AVA equipment. I can't help it. I'm not going to buy somethiing for $5000 when the AVA piece is as good or better for $500. :)

Zheeeem

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Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #14 on: 26 Jan 2006, 08:32 pm »
Quote from: tonyptony
Well, the thing is I already own the Pass X1, so that's the pre that I'm going with in this situation.


In that case, you'll love the 550 with the X1.  And if you don't love it, you can send it back for a refund.

Rocket

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #15 on: 27 Jan 2006, 12:20 pm »
Hi,

So often when i re-read my posts i totally confuse myself:

Quote
A Pass X1 is an opportunity for me that I have been looking forward to outside of the thought of a FetValve. That opportunity has presented itself.

I have every expectation that Frank's pres are stunning achievements as well, but a tube preamp is not a choice for me. It must be SS. Having said that how do you all think a X1 will mate with a FetValve?


The way i read this post is that you haven't actually purchased the pass preamp.

Regards

Rod

tonyptony

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #16 on: 27 Jan 2006, 01:03 pm »
Yeah, it was a little confusing. I actually do have the X1, but when I wrote the original post I was in the middle of being delerious with a stomach virus. What I actually should have explained was that I recently got a X1. Sorry for the confusion.

skrivis

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Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #17 on: 27 Jan 2006, 02:24 pm »
Quote from: tonyptony
Yeah, it was a little confusing. I actually do have the X1, but when I wrote the original post I was in the middle of being delerious with a stomach virus. What I actually should have explained was that I recently got a X1. Sorry for the confusion.


No problem. :)

So do you want a hybrid amp? How much power do you need? Even the 550EXR is relatively cheap, but why spend extra if you don't have to?



My general observations:

I guess what gets me is that, for the price of an X1 preamp, you could get both an amp and a preamp, plus a DAC from AVA. (I saw an X1 going for about $3K on Audiogon.)

OmegaStar SL for $599, with an extra $139 for phono if you need it. OmegaStar 240EX for $899. OmegaStar DAC for $799. That's $2297 or $2436 with phono. Add in maybe $30 if you go with generic cable and ICs from PartsExpress, or maybe $125 if you go for wire from Blue Jeans Cable.

You'll get plenty of power and everything will last as long as you want to keep it. (I figure you will easily get 10 years of use out of them if you want to.) Your electronics will be as good or better than 99% of the other stuff out there.

Now you'll have plenty of money to spend on speakers and music. :)

Going with Frank's tube or hybrid gear will cost you more (it looks like about twice as much), but that's still under the retail price of the X1 ($5500 was the figure I was on audiogon for retail price.)

I have all OmegaStar gear. I saved $100 by building my preamp from a kit. (It's really easy.) My amp is in a Hafler DH-220 chassis that I first built from a kit in the early '80s. I've had Frank put new circuits in it twice now. My DAC was upgraded from an earlier AVA model.

I'm very happy where I'm at, and I have lots of money left over for more important things, like beer! hehe (You can buy a lot of music CDs with the money you save too, or pay off more of your mortgage or something...)

I think (or hope anyway) that everyone here on AC is out to get get good music in the most cost-effective way.

G.Michael

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #18 on: 27 Jan 2006, 04:03 pm »
tonyptony,

Can you try your Pass X1 with your friend's AVA 550, in his system?  We'd be interested to know your impressions.

tonyptony

Okay, so who thinks a Pass X1 would be a good pre for a 550?
« Reply #19 on: 28 Jan 2006, 12:44 am »
Quote from: skrivis
No problem. :)

So do you want a hybrid amp? How much power do you need? Even the 550EXR is relatively cheap, but why spend extra if you don't have to?


My mind is focused on the FetValve 550 only becuase of my memory of that amp, with the same speakers as mine, at my friend's house. Do I need that much power? Yeah, I think so. The Shahinian speakers are not the most efficient, and really do sing with 200+ watts being fed into them.


Quote from: G.Michael
Can you try your Pass X1 with your friend's AVA 550, in his system?


Not as easy to do as it used to be. We used to live about 5 minutes away from each other. Now we're in different states.