More woofer = better sound?

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95bcwh

More woofer = better sound?
« on: 17 Jan 2006, 11:12 pm »
To all proud owners of Salk speakers:
 As I browsed through Salksound's impressive gallery, I saw that one of the speaker pair have 3 woofers and is bigger than the standard HT3. Jim called it "Heil ATM project".

  Just for curiosity, would this one sounds better than HT3? In general, would more woofers give better sound?

 Thanks and regards
 RV

Marbles

More woofer = better sound?
« Reply #1 on: 17 Jan 2006, 11:19 pm »
Only Jim can answer how the Heil speaker sounds compared to the HT3.

The HT3 has some of the best bass I've ever heard.

The Heil uses a different woofer than the one Jim had TC Sounds make for his HT3.

My guess is that the HT3 has better bass otherwise Jim would have used the woofers he used in the Heil project in the HT3.

jsalk

More woofer = better sound?
« Reply #2 on: 17 Jan 2006, 11:35 pm »
95bcwh -

I produced the Heil speakers for a customer who really had his heart set on the Heil AMT driver.  I used a pair of Seas L22's with it.

In answer to your question, the Heil design, while certainly good, was not a match for the HT3's.

The Heils had the advantage of being able to cross lower than the G2 ribbon.  But you needed woofers that would play high enough to mate with them.  And, of course, there was no need for the W18 since the Heils performed midrange duties as well.

One drawback of the Heils is limited vertical dispersion, something that is not a problem with the G2 pure ribbon tweeters in the HT3's.

If I were to do that design again, I perhaps would use the Seas W22's rather then the L22's.  But the budget did not allow for it.

I originally was going to offer the Heil design as a standard product.  But it just didn't seem to fit in my line of speakers anywhere.  The HT3 is a superior design and, for the money, the Veracity QW is a better over-all speaker.

- Jim

pugs

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More woofer = better sound?
« Reply #3 on: 17 Jan 2006, 11:58 pm »
Kind of on the same topic.  What is the reasoning behind choosing a 10" woofer on the HT3 instead of a 12"?  Would it be slower and not go much deeper?

jsalk

More woofer = better sound?
« Reply #4 on: 18 Jan 2006, 12:13 am »
Pugs -

Quote from: pugs
Kind of on the same topic.  What is the reasoning behind choosing a 10" woofer on the HT3 instead of a 12"?  Would it be slower and not go much deeper?


It would not go much lower, but it would move more air.  The decision to go with a 10" woofer was based on the desire to keep the front baffle width as narrow as possible.

When you cross this high, the woofer must be located on the front of the speaker.  A 12" woofer would have required an additional 2" in baffle width.  It would not have played much deeper (if any).  And since there are a pair of 10" drivers in a pair of HT3's, there is no need for additional bass output.  

So, there was little, if any, benefit and plenty to gain with a narrower front baffle.

- Jim

DMurphy

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More woofer = better sound?
« Reply #5 on: 18 Jan 2006, 03:21 am »
Quote from: jsalk
Pugs -

"It would not go much lower, but it would move more air.  The decision to go with a 10" woofer was based on the desire to keep the front baffle width as narrow as possible."

Also, in a passive 3-way, it's critical to use a woofer that has a smooth enough roll-off at the top end to mate well with the mid.  The bigger the woofer, the less likely that is.  The TC 10" is a rare find--incredible power handling, but also well behaved in the region between 200 Hz and 1 kHz.  Let's just say this wasn't the first woofer we tried.