[levlhed]

Thank you for your input.
I am not getting ahead of myself or being unrealistic.  Being completely uninformed about what I have, I had no basis to determine my best course of action concerning these speakers as they relate to my goals.  I'll admit I have limited experience in this realm of hi-fi, to date the best speakers I've owned is a pair of Advent Heritage..this of course is not due to a lack of interest!  This stuff is expensive and my priorities have lied elsewhere.  To some extent I could say my DJ P.A. is hi-fi as well..but thats a whole different realm.  I've heard quite a few different studio monitors and I can appreciate the importance of accurate audio reproduction.
I really am just trying to get better informed so I can make wise choices.
I appreciate and value your opinion, esp. as someone who probably helped build them!  thats cool.
If you or anyone else has more info/opinions on my situation, I'm very receptive!
Thanks

[flintstone]

Mine were made near the end of that model I think....somewhat like yours but different in several ways. Like I said, I paid around $2,000 at the time because I added a couple of upgrades...I don't recall what they were now?

Mine are near mint and may bring $1,000-$1,200 at Audiogon if I were to sell. They don't come up for sale often so I'm only judging by what I've saw at Agon in the past.

Mine are used in my hometheater and were also used as my "Rock" speakers in the past...they excell at both for a couple of reasons.

1. They play very loud without strain, and don't require over 100-200 watts to do so (depending on room size of course).

2. The lower section of these are the LARGE VMPS subs...you have two subs...room-lock is a wonderful thing!

HiFi...not as good as the best for sure, but much better than they look, they image very well for such a wide box. They can also be placed near or even well away from the wall with good results...a good thing.

If you can bring them back to life you will have great hometheater/rock speakers...no subs need apply!

Dave

[James Romeyn]

Thank you for your input.
I am not getting ahead of myself or being unrealistic.  Being completely uninformed about what I have, I had no basis to determine my best course of action concerning these speakers as they relate to my goals.  I'll admit I have limited experience in this realm of hi-fi, to date the best speakers I've owned is a pair of Advent Heritage..this of course is not due to a lack of interest!  This stuff is expensive and my priorities have lied elsewhere.  To some extent I could say my DJ ...

Umm, IMO comparing the value of home-assembled speakers (you stated they were kits) to factory assembled is "unrealistic".  That's what you did.  That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it.  We can mutually agree to disagree.  Fine.  You don't have to agree.  No hard feelings.  Getting ahead of yourself is speculating about value of something you got free, with them in disrepair & not having heard them in OEM condition.  

Oh, & the MSRP assembled was $1938pr.  Rounded to the nearest hundred is $1900, not $2000, but hey, who's counting?  And models later than yours had better poly 15", better poly 10", improved mids & softdomes, updated crossovers.  So that should help you with determining value.  IMO, perfect OEM condition for your vintage can't possibly exceed 1/2 MSRP kit price of $1298, or $650, maybe more like $500pr.  It would take a moderately advanced speaker builder to be able to confirm the crossover was wired & assembled correctly.

One of my favorite VMPS stories was the guy who bought a pair of that exact model in kit form.  After several years he had not assembled them & his cats were using them for cat homes.  He called to get a new copy of the crossover assembly instructions.

[levlhed]

WTF?  are you picking on me or something?
I never claimed to know MSRP, I stated a figure from the article someone posted a link to earlier in the thread which said they cost over $2,000.  I don't have a kit, I have assembled speakers.   At that point it was the only real info I've had about these speakers.  I didn't just pick that number out of a hat, and I clearly stated thats what I was refering to.
  How many times have I said that I know NOTHING about them and I'm here to find out more???
Why am I being faulted for trying to figure out these are worth?  clearly they are worth *something*?  Are you just pissed that my relative gave them to me?  I know they aren't worth even close to MSRP and at no point did I assume otherwise.
Someone posted in this thread that they might be interested in buying them!
I shouldn't be allowed to figure out a fair price and just give them away?

mr ribbonspeakers.net, let me be clear:
I'm not arguing that you don't have your facts straight.  I believe you are giving me valid information.  And thats all I'm here for.

[Bill Baker]

Why am I being faulted for trying to figure out these are worth? clearly they are worth *something*?

 Everythng is worth something and exactly how much varies every moment. They are worth what someone is willing to pay. I would recommend keeping up with Audio-Gon to see if any appear and what they go for taking in account the condition.

 I myself wouln't mind having these speakers. Hell, even your old Advents are desired by many. I like unique products and that is what you have. Granted they will need some work to get back to performing properly but what the hell, isn't this what DIY and this hobby is all about.

 Do your research and you should end up with a fair deal for both parties involved. If there is one thing you can be assured of............ list pricing means nothing at this point. Giving that you do not have anything invested into them, you could give them a new home with someone who will treat them right and both make out pretty good. I wouldn't give them away, just be fair. That's all people look for.

 Good luck with the venture.

[James Romeyn]

That review said these things cost $2,000 back when they were new.

&

bought these from a guy (in the 80's?) who'd built them from a kit

1. In the review, "these things" are not "your things".  Because "your things" are, in your words, built by two parties removed from you (that would be a 4th party removed from VMPS): 1. VMPS 2. you 3. your bro in law 4. then person X (an alleged kit builder).

That means you got squat, IMO.  Because till someone draws out a schematic &/or pictorial, & compares it to inside your speakers (will take a while), you have absolutely no idea on earth what the heck you got.  ST/R are quite complex 4-way 9-driver speakers (one passive), with 3 level controls.  Does that make sense?  A VMPS cabinet with obviously VMPS drivers does not necessarily make it a VMPS SuperTower/R inside.  Do you disagree?    

If you disagree that you are getting ahead of yourself inquiring about value, & that you are being "unrealistic" comparing a VMPS cabinet & drivers to a complete new factory assembled VMPS speaker, you are being, naive, IMO.  I'm entitiled to my opinion.  If you disagree, fine.  I'm repeating myself.  You don't have to agree.  That's a repeat also.  Is everyone who disagrees with you screwing with you?  Is this the first time you've ever been on a forum? It looks like it.

Maybe you realize you got ahead of yourself, & that you were being naive, & you just don't like being called on it, & that's why you're acting like your panties were pulled up.

Advertising those uknown quantities as VMPS ST/R, when you have no sure history, is false advertising, IMO.  Again, if you want to do it, I don't care.  Good luck.  

Ask Brian if he has an old schematic or pictorial laying around at the Plant, that has been walked over for the past 15-20 years.

Don't be so cheap.  You got them for free.  Your bro in law obviously thought their sum total value was zero.  Why don't you purchase the Agon blue book service?  There you can read that factory assembled ST/R are worth, your vintage, about $35ea.  Subtract about $45 for kit value.  Anything you are offered over that, as they sit now, is money in the bank, IMO.  

That's my opinion.  You asked, you received.

Factory assembled almost universally had two pages of setup instructions glued to the rear panel just above the top xo, with a S/N stamped on one of the pages.  If the pages are not there, & no sign of the glue remains, they were likely kits.  If the pages are there, but no S/N stamped on it, probably kits.

[levlhed]

you seem hell bent on proving what I've said from the beginning

YES, I'm NAIVE

happen to notice the title of this thread?

You could have just given me your opinion/info from the start, without making assumptions about me...am I new to forums? hah, not by a long shot.  Because of this I know not to post flame-baited replies based on assumptions derived from more than a few posts.

I'm not advertising anything
I'm asking questions.
I'm receiving some good answers, but having to wade through some attitude to get to it.  Go figure, I'm on an online forum.

[rotcoddam]

Levlhed,
    I'm just as mystified as you are. I haven't quite seen this kind of rudeness on the Circles. Got plenty of it on the Asylum though. Hope it doesn't get that way here. Good luck.
     The Mad Doctor.

[James Romeyn]

Are you blind?  Can you read?  I didn't say the title is naive.    

Naive is: requesting value information for something that doesn't function (foam rot), you haven't heard function as the original designer inteded, you don't know it's history & will never know because there is nothing in writing & you can't get testimony from the previous owners, asking for specs (ridiculous IMO because, again, we go in circles, it's not functioning now, so factory specs are less than useless).  Should I go on?  

Ask your bro in law the value when possession changed from his hands to yours.  It's zero.  Did you forget already?

Yes, I am giving you attitude based on your belief that it makes sense to ask about value for something as ridiculous as speakers that were apparently sold as five or six cartons of hundreds of loose parts & two cabinets, now at least three people or more removed from the factory, unknown history, unknown assembly skills, unknown if they are anywhere close to OEM...and you already have the most recently established value reference: zero, bupkus, nothing, nada, no-thing...I imagine you had to pay for the gas in the truck to go pick them up.  Right?  So the last known value is actually minus nothing, or negative dollars.

You are advertising your suspicion or hope that you got something for nothing, the proverbial free lunch.  I'm telling you you got what you paid for.  Tell your bro in law you changed your mind & ask if he'll come pick them up & tell us what he says.

At least Advents were not sold as kits, & they are an acceptable size, & they are 2-ways that anyone can analyze, plus it's easy to get the xo layout.  I'd take a pair of Advents over those anyday.  Did you miss the size of your VMPS speakers?  That would be consistent with your reading skills.  I'll bet you without looking the Advents are worth more in the bb.

[James Romeyn]

Thank you for your input.
I am not getting ahead of myself or being unrealistic.  Being completely uninformed about what I have, I had no basis to determine my best course of action concerning these speakers as they relate to my goals.  ...

What are your goals?

This is what you have:
1. VMPS cabinets & components.  You have absolutely no idea about the internal wiring.  The only way to confirm the internal wiring is to get a copy of the factory specs & compare to inside your speakers.  

Two associated problems:
a) VMPS I'd bet has no wiring diagrams & isn't very interested in re-writing one for free.  
b) The inspector must be quite good at following a pretty dramatic maze of wire & xo components.

Till then, don't plan any other goals, because it makes no sense at all.  That would be naive.  Anyone who says different is wrong.  I used to work there & may have assembled the parts for that exact speaker kit.  

Not being able to perform the above, just forget about learning anything about them, enjoy them, do whatever you like with them, perform  whatever repairs or stuff any drivers in there you prefer.  

That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it.

[JoshK]

Two questions....can you draw?  do you have access to a scanner?  Draw out the xo, like you see it and try to write out any values you can read and pm/email it to me and I'll try to help you out.  

I am not going to comment on the rest of the posts in this thread as I'd say something unnice to a few posting here.

[CornellAlum]

Josh, I bet I could one up you after reading this thread.  Shall we give it a try  

[Bill Baker]

My guess is that there is someone outthere that would be interested in these as a "project". As long as you are honest (as you seem to be) about what they are, or are not, someone will want to play with them.

 Obvioulsy they will never be back to "original" form as we will never know what that truly was nor will we probably ever know their history........ but so what.

 DIY'ers have brought a lot worse back from the dead. Hey look at it this way, if your resurection doesn't work out, at least you not starting with a large investment

 

I am not going to comment on the rest of the posts in this thread as I'd say something unnice to a few posting here.

 KUDOS!!!

[Rocket]

Hi,

As per previous advice i would suggest getting the cones repaired professionally and perhaps you might be surprised

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=24589.msg218291#218291

Regards

Rod

[Marbles]

Jim, I don't get what you're trying to say...how much are these worth?  

[warnerwh]

If you want to make them work like new again all you need to do is get ahold of Brian. He can tell you what you need and may even have what you need.  They will surprise you how good they sound when you're done. Certainly well worth the investment in time and money. The crossovers should be fine which just leaves the drivers.

[warnerwh]

Oops!

[James Romeyn]

If the xo in those cabinets is OEM, & if levelhd can copy it by looking at it, I'll bet on the Steelers to win the superbowl.  

The xo components must be held down either with hot glue or silicone.  Either way the values are hidden.  It's not the values anyway that are of concern, because the cap banks were bundled together by Brian.  It's the wiring.  It's a huge mess in there.  The bass/mid is qso, the rest are first order, but the three level controls make it difficult to follow & the sheer number of wires & components & series/parallel, etc, plus the top firing piezo, etc, etc, plus the 10" woofer resistor, plus the biamp single amp switch plus the fuse.  Each xo took Brian well over an hour.  The time wasn't because of complexity (it was complex but he knew it well from repetition) but rather just because of the sheer volume of work.  It was fairly common to have to fix minor errors during final assembly.    

If Josh knows what the xo was originally, he should draw it & send it to levelhd.  Maybe levelhd can read it & compare the two.

Saying the "crossover should be fine" is way bad info imo.  I have heard kit builder's questions about assembling those xo's.  To say the instructions could have been better is being gracious to B.  It is not the peice of cake implied by that statement.  I'd say the chances of them being incorrect are greater than 50-50.  Building that xo for the first time would be daunting for most kit builders.  The seond one would be no easier than the first.  I worked there.   The biggest model I built by myself was the smaller Tower II.  My kit building days ended after that (yes the fact I didn't pay full retail affected that decision).  The $300 or so saved on kits (assmebled were discounted) was not a picnic for buyers.      

It would take even B well over an hour to draw out that xo & be absolutely sure every detail was correct.  Even B made errors drawing out the qso xo, it's esp bad with the switch & two inputs & all the rest stated above.  I truly believe the instructions for that speaker were never accurately completed.  They are more than double the complexity of Josh's RM40s.

[levlhed]

thanks everyone.
I'll keep you posted on my progress.

[JoshK]

I never said I knew the orig xo in that design.  I was just offering help if he had a problem with his xo, since it looks as though noone was willing to help him out.