NuForce Reference 9 vs CIAudio D200

halcyon98 · « **on:** 5 Jan 2006, 04:37 am »

Has anyone done a direct comparison?

Two rather different approaches to class D..

As far as I understand it, Nuforces are their own design

D200s were designed in collabartion with Hypex to create custom modules.

Nuforces may have RF interference, CIAudio does not?

Nuforcce is 3lbs vs Ciaudio 15lbs

Nuforce is a bit more expensive and a bit less power.

I have the D200s, and they bested my Bryston SST by a huge margin

tvad4 · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Jan 2006, 06:00 am »

Quote

Has anyone done a direct comparison?

I compared the D100 and Ref8 about six months ago.

The D100 conveyed music. The Nuforce conveyed a nice facsimile of music.

It was if the orchestra was playing instruments made of wood, brass and gold when played on the D100, whereas the orchestra was playing instruments made of stainless steel when played on the NuForce.

NuForce proponents will surely respond by saying I haven't heard the newest versions/models, and this is true. However, I believe the house sound of NuForce and Ci Audio are reasonably consistent from model to model, and therefore I stand by my original comparison.

NuForce continues to offer revision after revision to their amps. CI Audio has apparently got it right the first time...at least Dusty is sticking with the model he presently has available, and I have read zero customer complaints about the CI Audio amps.

Personal preference in sonic presentation plays a large role when choosing between these two amplifiers, but if I had only the D200 and Ref9 from which to choose, I'd buy the D200 hands down.

rustydoglim · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Jan 2006, 11:14 am »

Quote

NuForce continues to offer revision after revision to their amps. CI Audio has apparently got it right the first time.

NuForce/Nphysics (the same people) patented, designed and implemented the amps right here in California, USA. CI Audio's amp use Hypex UcD amp module that has been developed for years in The Netherlands. 2005 was the first year we introduced our amps and yes, it went through some growing pain. Yes, I am giving excuses that we didn't get it right in our first production.
Eventually, the Ref 9 has won The Absolute Sound Editor's Choice and Golden Ear award. And if you read the latest reviews from several other reviewers, many of them stated it outright that Ref 9 is the best amps they ever heard. Oh well, feel free to check out our demo room at CES

Hey, tvad4 you're expressing your opinion and I am not critizing your taste. You're free to chose whatever you please. But I take issue with your one point above.

audiojerry · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Jan 2006, 01:13 pm »

What is the difference in price between CI and NuForce?

I have nothing against NuForce, but I've tried listening to it on three different occasions, and while I recognized many virtues in performance, it ultimately did not convey music in a musical way for me, and it's hard to put my finger on exactly why.

The reasons could merely boil down to how each of us hears things. There are certain aspects of the Nuforce signal that seemed to irritate my nerve endings, even while it was doing impressive things from a technical standpoint.

Some of us think tubes sound the best, others think tube sound sucks. Class D may have qualities that some find fabulous, but others may find it sounds artificial. Who's right?

claud · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Jan 2006, 01:51 pm »

The CI D-100s are $1599 for two monoblocks. The NuForce Ref 8s are $800 per channel.
Next weekend, the 14th, I'm having a comparo of these two at my house for a meeting of AC and HTT forum local members. I have been breaking the CIs in for a week and ran the Nuforce a couple of nights because they haven't been used since they were upgraded.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Jan 2006, 03:33 pm »

Re: Class D - I have a Clari-T in-house and love the presentation. It it fluid, musical, and powerful (with 101 db speakers). I demo'd the NuForce amps and found them to be really impressive in a hi-fi sense, but not terribly musical. Over time, I also found them irritating.

They are undeniably glorious in the bass range and dynamics are first rate. One of the visitors I had over thought they were fantastic and I believe he is arranging to demo them.

Stereo is funny. First impressions of big dynamic swings, bass, and air often give way to feelings of musical dissatisfaction. I wouldn't be surprised if that's where this generation of the NuForce amps ends up.

They have won numerous awards, but then again so did the PS Audio HCA-2 that's now ridden off into the sunset. I owned that amp and will say the NuForce amps sound bigger and control the bass much better. And, everyone has their own flavors. The head-to-head comparisons could well yield a 50/50 split as to who prefers which.

tvad4 · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Jan 2006, 04:54 pm »

Quote

NuForce/Nphysics (the same people) patented, designed and implemented the amps right here in California, USA. CI Audio's amp use Hypex UcD amp module that has been developed for years in The Netherlands.

You can continue to spin it anyway you want. NuForce amps have gone through several revisions since the Ref8 monos were released and crowned Best Ever by early adopters. With the concern over RF produced by the Ref9, I suspect NuForce will release another revision beyond the 9.02 version.

CI Audio amps have not been revised, to my knowledge. The beta testing and module development was done before the amps were marketed to the end user. Different approaches by the two companies. I prefer the latter.

Putting aside personal preference in sonics, the point remains. New owners of NuForce amps must live with the possibility that they may need to send their amps in for modification to the latest iteration. Most NuForce owners seem to regard this as a benefit. Personally, I'd rather leave gear in my system and not have to worry that it's not performing at it's best.

suits_me · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jan 2006, 04:00 am »

>CI Audio amps have not been revised, to my knowledge.

Your knowledge is incomplete. Ask around, or maybe revisit the S'phile review.

I am currently agnostic on NuForce versus CIA.

claud · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jan 2006, 04:07 am »

The CI D-100 monos have had one revision according to Dusty in one of the recent threads here in CI's forum. They were revised to sound like the D200 monos, and have a similar circuit. You can tell which one you have by the number of screws on the heat sink on the back. Eight screws is new version, six screws is old. Stereophile reviewed the old D 100 version.

tvad4 · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jan 2006, 04:40 am »

Quote from: claud

The CI D-100 monos have had one revision according to Dusty in one of the recent threads here in CI's forum. They were revised to sound like the D200 monos, and have a similar circuit. You can tell which one you have by the number of screws on the heat sink on the back. Eight screws is new version, six screws is old. Stereophile reviewed the old D 100 version.

You're right. I stand corrected.

claud · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jan 2006, 03:17 pm »

So far I have about 60 hours on the CI D100s, and about 10 hours on the NuForce since returned from the factory for current upgrades. I initially liked the Nuforce for their great Cardas speaker wire connectors, just like on my Merlin TSM-MMs. I asked Dusty about upgrading to these on the D100s, because the stock CI connectors have a post that is too thick for my TG Audio spades. I was having to put one fork of each spade in the hole in the speaker post to connect them. Dusty said that all I needed to do was return the amps and have the posts turned so that the skinnier part of the post was positioned up and down. Rather than returning them I was able to slide the spades on from the side. They then fit great. If I keep the CIs I'll have Dusty turn the posts so I can insert the spades from the top.
I really like both of these amps. They both have something missing from my Cary V12R--bass slam and better bass detail. I initially liked the Nuforce better, but the CIs have surpassed them by sounding more musical and balanced the last two days. Its still early yet, and I need to put another 10 hours or so on the Nuforce and another 40 or so on the CIs by next Saturday. Check the NC Audiofiles section of this forum for opinions of attendees and myself.

audiojerry · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jan 2006, 06:49 pm »

Claud,
I recommend playing music through the Nuforce 24/7 for several days. They will change over time, and because they are so efficient the cost of operation is diminutive. You could just hook a cheap reciever or boombox if it has audio outs.

guest1632 · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Jan 2006, 12:21 am »

Quote from: tvad4

You can continue to spin it anyway you want. NuForce amps have gone through several revisions since the Ref8 monos were released and crowned Best Ever by early adopters. With the concern over RF produced by the Ref9, I suspect NuForce will release another revision beyond the 9.02 version.

CI Audio amps have not been revised, to my knowledge. The beta testing and module development was done before the amps were marketed to the end user. Different approaches by the two companies. I prefer the latter.

Well, not quite true for CI Audio. There was a revission in the D100's. It was a module upgrade. Let's see, one has 6 screws holding the module in place the other has 8. I don't remember which is the newer one. But it does appear that Dusty does have it right.

Ray

tvad4 · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Jan 2006, 12:42 am »

Ray, I've already copped to making a mistake on the CI Audio revision statement. Just read three posts before yours.

guest1632 · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Jan 2006, 03:33 am »

Quote from: tvad4

Ray, I've already copped to making a mistake on the CI Audio revision statement. Just read three posts before yours.

Hey no problem. Did not see the correction til I had posted.

HumanMedia · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jan 2006, 11:18 am »

I know its not exactly on-topic, but has anyone compared these two amps to the new Bel Canto offerings, the eOne Ref1000 and eOne S300?

If so how do these three families of products compare?

HumanMedia · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Jan 2006, 12:34 am »

Any further feedback on how the Channel Islands compare to the Nuforce??

JoshK · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Jan 2006, 12:48 am »

I own a Hypex UcD based amp (same tech at the CI Audio amp) and I have heard Nuforce amps (can't remember which). I didn't hear them head to head so discount this comment the necessary amount, but the take I got from the listening was the nuforce had a smoother engaging midrange while the ucd's have better bass, more dynamics and impact.

zybar · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Jan 2006, 03:10 am »

Quote from: JoshK

I own a Hypex UcD based amp (same tech at the CI Audio amp) and I have heard Nuforce amps (can't remember which). I didn't hear them head to head so discount this comment the necessary amount, but the take I got from the listening was the nuforce had a smoother engaging midrange while the ucd's have better bass, more dynamics and impact.

Josh,

I hope that you are wrong on on the comparison...

From my listening session with the NuForce 9, I wouldn't exactly call the midrange smooth and engaging.

I have been back and forth on trying to get my hands on the CI Audio D-200's because they are supposed to be the one with the smoother and more musical midrange.

If I can get a a pair of D-200's, maybe you can come over and bring your amp.

George

NuForce Reference 9 vs CIAudio D200

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