A TRUE REVOLUTION IN S. E. T. TUBE DESIGN...

Dmason · « **Reply #60 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 09:41 pm »

There seems to be an "either, or," mentality here. No one owns one pair of shoes, and you wouldn't use a half inch bit for a one inch drill hole.

SET and jazz were MADE for each other. It in my opinion allows jazz to be projected in its correct sonic "context," --somehow. ....Yet, I wouldn't hesitate to plug speaker cables into the ClariT when listening to Yellowjackets, for example, or The Flecktones, because that would be an appropriate amp for super fast fretless bass runs, and lots of krazy percussion events in the backfield. It's a "right tool for the job," gig in my mind, not a "which is better," debate. Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" would sound best on SET. Stravinsky's "Firebird" is amazing using a battery digital amp.

To make SET amps really space out and sing, properly implemented, feed it a signal of >200Hz, and let a Parts Express sub to the rest if you have to, then watch what happens.

-Richard- · « **Reply #61 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 10:23 pm »

Hi Dmason,

Yes...I see what you mean...once we understand the "nature" of our speakers...
and what the music is asking from us...in the way of "supporting" the musics
contours...we can select which kind of amplifier is the more appropriate match...
on an ongoing basis...not limiting ourselves to one amplifier topology...

It is in that context that I am waiting patiently and with great excitement and
expectation for Vinnie Rossi, of Red Wine Audio, to put together one of his
extraordinary digital, battery powered amplifiers for me...

My musical life moves around quite a bit...just as yours seems to...different
evenings call for different musical forms...and I am not at all uptight in declaring
that Deb and I jump into the fast 50's dances when the spirit moves us...spirits
like Tina Turner, Etta James, Ray Charles...I learned to dance pretty well in order
to attract girl friends during my teenage years and I still have fun whirling Deb
around our living room floor...although admittedly I no longer dance in public...
it now constitutes a very private bit of fun!!!!

Perhaps what is different about our involvement with audio compared to the average
person is that changing amplifiers does not seem like work for many of us...at least
not for me...I actually like the idea of changing speakers as well...it allows the ear
to refresh itself...and as you pointed out Dan, you can tailor the technology to match
the musics life...

To that end I am also anxiously awaiting Louis Cochos's new design...the
Omega Super 3 2V Bipoles Speakers...

I also want to thank you for your previous post in which you give us a very
convincing overview of where you think the latest develops in SET amps
are evolving to...we are most definitely in the midst of a Renaissance of SET
tube design...and any of us that still carry old ideas about SET's in our heads
really are missing out on SET's incredible potential for bringing music to life...

It is always exciting Dan, to read your mixture of aesthetics and science...
in the service of where you think the real magic lies...it is in the conceptual
underpinnings of audio's potential that your shamanistic inquires lead us
to reconsider our current critical thinking...and for which we are all indebted...

Warm Regards -Richard-

-Richard- · « **Reply #62 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 12:39 am »

Hi audiojerry,

Thanks so much for your kindness...in this splendid season of kindness and
good will toward everyone...may the blessings of peace descend on our
country again...I can only hope that 2006 sees the end of wars...

Hi fabaudio,

It is really nice that you share your excitement at hearing great jazz performances
with us...music can send our souls into flights of ecstasy nothing else can quite
match...of course there is romance...and I would not be surprised if one day
someone figures out that they both share the same structural life somewhere
in the human brain...

Warm Regards -Richard-

J North · « **Reply #63 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 02:26 am »

Dmason,

I notice you have the Rane Digital active XO/EQ listed. Are you using it with your B200's?

Which model is it?
What XO frequency are you at?

I have the B200's and am researching "flexible" XO/EQ solutions

These are truly stunning speakers (esp at the price).

Can't wait to hear them with SET.

Thanks

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #64 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 05:43 am »

Quote from: -Richard-

Yes...I see what you mean...once we understand the "nature" of our speakers...
and what the music is asking from us...in the way of "supporting" the musics
contours...we can select which kind of amplifier is the more appropriate match...
on an ongoing basis...not limiting ourselves to one amplifier topology... Perhaps what is different about our involvement with audio compared to the average
person is that changing amplifiers does not seem like work for many of us...at least
not for me...I actually like the idea of changing speakers as well...it allows the ear
to refresh itself...and as you pointed out Dan, you can tailor the technology to match
the musics life...

Perfect Richard !!! As some have asked me..."why so many different amps and preamps ?"....for that very reason....there is no perfect piece of equipement....only one's I enjoy....viva la difference !!!

Chris[/list:u]

BrianB · « **Reply #65 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 05:59 am »

Hi audiojerry, JLM, and JoshK!

I'd love to have any and all of you visit my little shop. However, I will not be up and running again for walk-in customers until mid-January, as my shop is still being restored following some flood damage from a couple of months back...

Cheers,
Brian

BrianB · « **Reply #66 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 06:04 am »

Quote from: Dmason

There seems to be an "either, or," mentality here. No one owns one pair of shoes, and you wouldn't use a half inch bit for a one inch drill hole.

Back when Art Dudley - now a Stereophile reviewer - was publishing Listener Magazine (man, how I miss that rag!), he strongly suggested that any serious listener whose taste in music was "eclectic" ought to own more than one amplifier...

Zero · « **Reply #67 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 06:34 am »

In the miniscule time eclipsed in the pursuit of better sound has brought to me many lessons that extend beyond the realms of simple stereo. Within the realm of stereo, I have come to fully appreciate the significance of learning a product, a sound, the benefits and perils of each component and approach taken. It is a maddening pleasant misery of choice as we all, as audiophiles and music lovers, tread through. Our measures, standards, perceptions and even our knowledge alter and grow as experience ultimately presides.

My *utmost* appreciation to all which make this experience the treasure it is. To the brilliant minds that toil away in a shop, to those that expose us and sell us the equipment with service and a smile, to those who buy and share experiences, thoughts and knowledge. It is a reminder that we are, all of us, on the same team – no matter your preferences or beliefs.

audiojerry · « **Reply #68 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 01:02 pm »

Someone hand me a tissue - I think there's something in my eye.

gilbodavid · « **Reply #69 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 04:31 pm »

What a thread! Gets my vote for "best of year" on all sites. It has everything - the initial revelation, the poetry, the joining of minds, the arguements, the making ups, more revelatins, the science, the visitations from the gods for whom its all dedicated, some answered questions to leave us hanging, and the tears at the end. ALLELUYA

The funny thing is i think i've found my next project - open baffle b200's. Been looking for anything that might match my beloved repannelled Quad esl57's without looking like radiators, and you never nkow i might have found it. Richard you never answered re source or preamp I think..

gilbodavid · « **Reply #70 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 04:33 pm »

oops, for "revalatins" please substitute "revelations" javascript:emoticon(':o')
Surprised

gilbodavid · « **Reply #71 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 04:36 pm »

oops, for "answered" please sustitute "unanswered".

And yes, i think i've mastered the Emoticons issue. Wow

-Richard- · « **Reply #72 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 07:38 pm »

Hi gilbodavid,

If you do decide to pursue the use of the Visaton B200 drivers in Open Baffle
you will be rewarded with a revelatory audio experience...nothing I have ever
heard penetrates the space of a room in the same way...assuming your ancillary
equipment has a nice synergy with this devastatingly simple speaker design
you will feel as if you have finally come home...

Music flows into your room with the living throbbing "essence" of live music...
organic and intact and in very real sense uncompromised...

It is not perfect...but considerations of perfection finally subside in this audio modality...
one hungers for something thrilling in music...we are not talking about
the "content" of the musical form here...but that essential inner life that all musical
forms stimulate in us...a sense of connectedness with the source of life...music
imparts moments of a heightened reality...an expansion of our ability to feel...
and perhaps for a few moments to place the busy mind with its endless chatter
to rest...to allow ones feelings to resonate with the pulse of life...the heart beating
madly within us...the surf crashing endlessly against the shore...the wind in the
trees...summers insect serenade...the babbling brook...and something undefinable...
the unseen waves of energy that pulse through us that have the effect of lifting us
out of the mundane world of endless dulling repetition to remind us that we are
really alive...and that life is essentially finite...a sense of lifes fleeting mysteries...

Forgive me, but I am not entirely certain what your question points to...

Are you asking for a resource to get more information on the B200's in OB?
There is a thread started by the endlessly curious and impeccable DMason
called the The Gravity Well of a Dark Star nestled somewhere on Vinnie
Rossi's, Red Wine Audio, manufacturers forum here on AC...

It was DMason who brought his discovery of the B200 in OB to our attention
and used the above thread to flesh out an investigation of its potential,
essential characteristics, advice and measurements...mind you, gilbodavid,
the full potential of this audio paradigm is still under investigation...so you will
be entering new ground...where you can bring your own creativity and
research skills to bear...

Are you referring to what amplifier I am now using? I am using a tube Single Ended
Pentode integrated...and I am waiting for Vinnie Rossi to build me one of his
super clean and transparant digital amplifiers...and as this thread suggests I
am also asking Roger Modjesky to build me one of his magical 2A3/45 SET
amplifiers which one must hear on the B200 OB's to believe it...Roger has created
something extraordinary here...and through his wizardly circuit design he has
managed to generate twice the watts from both tubes without any stress to them...

I will be publishing the results of a frequency curve that Roger generated for
the B200 on my OB's in his laboratory very soon...however, being the perfectionist
that Roger is, he wants to vary the experiment a bit and create new parameters
for the tests we did...I helped Roger a bit and he took pity on me when I bungled
the measurements a bit...thanks Roger for your patience!!!! But we are due to get
together again and go deeper into the science of the B200 in OB and what is
really going on there...

Please let me know if I have come close to answering your questions,
gilbodavid...if not I am at your service to help any way I can...

I hope everyones New Year celebrations are joyous and full of good cheer...

Perhaps 2006 will see an end to war on this earth forever...one can dream...

Warm Regards -Richard-

fabaudio · « **Reply #73 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 09:44 pm »

Quote from: -Richard-

Hi gilbodavid,

If you do decide to pursue the use of the Visaton B200 drivers in Open Baffle
you will be rewarded with a revelatory audio experience...nothing I have ever
heard penetrates the space of a room in the same way...assuming your ancillary
equipment has a nice synergy with this devastatingly simple speaker design
you will feel as if you have finally come home...

Music flows into your room with the living throbbing "essence" of live music...
organic and intact and in very real sense unco ...

Don't tell me.......Do I have to wait 'till next year for your evaluation of the Bipoles vis-a-vis the OB Visatons?

Happy and musical New Year!

Frank

JeffB · « **Reply #74 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 10:29 pm »

Hi Richard,

I had actually posted a question about your demo day at Roger's where you heard his new amplifier with your B200s. I wanted to know what components were used upstream, ie. source, preamp. This is the question that did not get answered.

Thanks,
Jeff

-Richard- · « **Reply #75 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 11:45 pm »

Hi JeffB,

Sorry if your post slipped by me...the holidays and all...

Roger used a Sony multi-disk player that had its own built-in attenuator...
certainly nothing fancy there...

So...no preamp or special multi-buck CD player was used...

In this Roger exemplifies a characteristic that I noticed many really innovative
audio genius's have in common...which is that they do not fuss over
their sources...you would be surprised how many serious audio enthusiasts are
using ipods for example...

Vinnie Rossi of Red Wine Audio loves his ipod...and Scott Nixon uses
a Pioneer Universal CD player that cost a bit more than $100. with his dac...

In a very real sense I feel that Roger's choice of CD player with its own attenuator
made the performance of his 45 tube SET amp all the more incredible...including
Roger's use of lamp cord wire for speaker cables...which I am now using myself
at home...

Yes..yes...I know that we all have had experience with cables that "help" to
add some characteristic sonic attribute to the all-over synergistic equation
of our systems...in many cases we use them as tone controls to tame this
or that, to smooth over certain idiosyncrasies of our speakers for example,
or to add something we feel is missing...

That Roger keeps things simple is a testament to his sober approach to audio
design...

Roger feels that if things look appropriate on his laboratory bench...he knows that
he is close to getting what he wants from his designs in real-world applications...
a sober and scientific ground from which to build from...

Warm Regards -Richard-

-Richard- · « **Reply #76 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 01:48 am »

Hi Frank,

Louis has assured me that he should be able to start building my pair of
Super 3 Bipole's sometime soon after he gets back from the Vegas CES
show...

I think that before the end of January I should have them up on my Skylan
stands and breaking-in...

Louis hopes to have a version of his 4.5 inch Hemp drivers as drop-in
replacements before too long...and I suspect that these could be another
pathway to audio nirvana...and like the Visaton B200's these new drivers
may not use/need a whizzer...hummmmmmm...

Warm Regards -Richard-

PorkpieHat · « **Reply #77 on:** 1 Jan 2006, 03:40 pm »

Quote from: Roger A. Modjeski

What listeners don't seem to realize is that large amounts of 2nd is fine for a single note but not for a full orchestra. As I like to say "Please tell me what is the second harmonic of Beethoven's 9th?, the amplifier is having a little trouble figuring it out".

By golly I think he's got it! This is exactly the problem that classical music lovers have to deal with when selecting audio equipment. Many learn to ask someone what kind of music they listen to when they start to rave about this amp or that speaker. Classical music presents challenges that, as far as I am able to tell, seem best resolved by clean detail and powerful dynamics - as opposed to the harmonic bias that serves jazz and rock so well. Beethoven's 9th is a very good test. Mahler's symphony number 8 (Symphony of a thousand voces) is another. Tchaikovsky's 5th presents another challenge - amplitude range - listen to his 5th on the Harmonia Mundi CD with Daniel Gatti conducting the Royal Philharmonic. Starts out so quietly you can barely hear it, and then scales up so quickly to massively loud.

gilbodavid · « **Reply #78 on:** 5 Jan 2006, 12:26 pm »

Well, Richard, i ordered my B200's today. Am interested to hear how they sound through my homemade 7W SET monoblocks. Will keep you posted, and thanks for your insight. Can anyone here tell me why the Gravity Well of a Dark Star suddenly nosedived into oblivion when 20 people were set to do a group buy? Regards, david

JLM · « **Reply #79 on:** 6 Jan 2006, 03:13 am »

I think the B200 group buy collapsed under international trade tariffs (sources and customers from multiple countries) and no big discounts were forthcoming.