Looking for a great loudspeaker system

sts9fan · « **Reply #300 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 04:06 pm »

[/quote]I know if I married the first thing that showed up at my door, I would be married to a bitch. (I'm not calling the HT3s a bitch)

Quote

Then why would you say it? Looks like some feelings are gonna be hurt. I hope there is no crying..

ajzepp · « **Reply #301 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 04:21 pm »

Frank, which one of your amps do you have paired with the Salks right now? Or if you've tried a few, which combination do you like best?

avahifi · « **Reply #302 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 04:25 pm »

I am running them with a Fet Valve Ultra 550 and an Ultra EC preamp. I have not tried any other combinations yet, no time for that so far. I listened with their contour switch both on and off, and much prefer it off with out equipment, however I can see that the contour switch on position might work really well with hotter sounding electonics. If you have typical solid state equipment, then the HT3s should work great with the contour switch turned on. I would advice going for this option, "just in case".

Frank

avahifi · « **Reply #303 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 04:28 pm »

By the way, they are quite inefficient, I am needing 2 - 3 clicks more up on the volume control than with the 801s or the Biro L/1s. Easily within the capability of a Fet Valve Ultra 350 or 550 or an OmegaStar 260EX or 440EX though.

Frnak

avahifi · « **Reply #304 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 05:01 pm »

On another thought, I had the chance to listen to a set of Revel Performa M20 bookshelf size speakers here just before setting up the HT3s. They are impressive looking and are $2000 a pair.

The Revel M20 speakers did not impress me at all. Even with the high end control set all the way down I heard a too loud upper midrange with too little inner transparency and the range that I could call lower midrange, – upper bass seemed muffled - like somebody had tied a scarf around the speaker in that range.

Way too much coloration and way too little musicality for me. I don't like to go on and and on about every aspect of a loudspeaker, either it strikes me quickly as good or it does not.

In my opinion, these were not in the class with the ACI Sapphires or our own now discontinued Biro L/1s and both are/were lower priced.

Frank Van Alstine

By the way, the Revel owner visited to see which of our electroncs would be best with his speakers. Now he is planning for new speakers instead of first getting our electronics, especially after he helped me set up the Salk HT3s and then heard them too.

Probably my loss, Jim Salk' gain.

mca · « **Reply #305 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 05:18 pm »

Frank,

I may have missed it in an earlier post, but what is the finish of your new Salks? Do you have the black or silver bass driver? Did you go with any upgrades?

Aether Audio · « **Reply #306 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 05:24 pm »

Frank,

Congratulations on your new purchase! It is good to hear that you have found something that works for you. Congratulations to Jim Salk as well as this is clearly a “feather in his cap” to have someone of your experience so enthusiastic about his product. It’s a big market and this just goes to show there’s something for everyone’s tastes. No sour grapes here as far as we’re concerned.

In fact, it’s probably a good thing you had a chance to hear the Salk product before ours. I have heard them myself at RMAF 2005 and I can say with a certain amount of certainty that if you like that type of presentation, you probably wouldn’t care too much for that of ours. Never say never - but if I were a betting man…

That being the case, your decision has actually taken a bit of a burden off our production workload. We have a number of Timepieces that are scheduled to go out for auditioning that we are trying to catch up with. The pair we were preparing for you has other destinations that they can easily now go to, so all is well.

I will say this though:

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The others demos were to be smaller speakers too, not big full range ones, so even if I had waited, I would have then needed to decide whether to invest in the big models from the less than complete demos (deep bass not all there) and that still would have been a trial and error process.

Unfortunately, sometimes “experience” works against all of us. It tends to establish a certain set of expectations and by default, limits what we are willing to accept and/or consider as possible. The high-end audio industry is rife with strongly held views, opinions, and expectations that often represent significant “walls” for those of us that would challenge them. We at SP Technology constantly find ourselves struggling to break through these barriers in our efforts to promote our achievements.

Nevertheless, it is also a lot of fun when we finally do see “jaws drop” and hear exclamations of disbelief. To be sure, establishing a paradigm shift is both extremely difficult… and extremely rewarding.

Best wishes to all the players in this little drama. May both they and you continue to be successful and enjoy this passionate hobby/business of ours for many years to come!

-Bob

jackman · « **Reply #307 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 05:47 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

Yes it was a quick judgement and yes it is too bad I did not hear others first. But I have been at this for years and years and have heard lots of speakers in lots of conditions, and nothing has grabbed me like these. The others demos were to be smaller speakers too, not big full range ones, so even if I had waited, I would have then needed to decide whether to invest in the big models from the less than complete demos (deep bass not all there) and that still would have been a trial and error process.

First thing in the door? Maybe, but not the first thing I have heard.

Frank

Hey, let me say that I've been a big fan of AVA gear and a big fan of Jim Salk's work for years. I've heard Jim's speakers on several occasions and I've been very impressed with the sound and the workmanship. Plus, they were designed by Dennis Murphy a man I respect and admire. I have owned several of Dennis' designs (from before Dennis became a household name!) and each one has sounded incredible. I feel there is a really good chance that Frank would have chosen the Salks even if he listened to everything else

Why am I writing this? Because I'm a bit disappointed that Frank was so closed minded that he stopped his search after hearing one pair of speakers. Don't get me wrong, it's his perogative and the ones he chose are world class. I have never heard any of the others, like the SP but was looking forward to Frank's comments on some of the other speakers he tested, good and bad.

I like to think this isn't the kind of "objective" evaluation process Frank uses when he designs his gear. Don't get me wrong, I think he made a great choice but I was looking forward to his comments on how the other speakers sounded with his gear. Heck, I'm ure there are several owners of the other speakers who were wondering the same thing.

Just my .10...

J

miklorsmith · « **Reply #308 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 05:50 pm »

Ditto, jackman, especially after 30+ pages of buildup.

avahifi · « **Reply #309 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 06:17 pm »

Well if only the other manufacturers would have come thru in the months they had time to.

Frank

EProvenzano · « **Reply #310 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 06:23 pm »

Quote from: jackman

Hey, let me say that I've been a big fan of AVA gear and a big fan of Jim Salk's work for years. I've heard Jim's speakers on several occasions and I've been very impressed with the sound and the workmanship. Plus, they were designed by Dennis Murphy a man I respect and admire. I have owned several of Dennis' designs (from before Dennis became a household name!) and each one has sounded incredible. I feel there is a really good chance that Frank would have chosen the Salks even if he listened to everyth ...

Agreed.

At this point even if the comparisons were to continue the validity of the outcome is gone.

Too bad.

RoadTripper · « **Reply #311 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 06:24 pm »

I was hoping to hear the comparison of the three contenders. I am not in the market for the Salks with their 85dB sensitivity, nor for the SP offerings for the same reason. But hearing from a guy like Frank was going to be informative. The build up only had interest due to the anticipation of a final shoot-out, which we won't be getting.

MaxCast · « **Reply #312 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 06:24 pm »

Look at it the other way too. If Frank would have heard 4 other speakers and of course picked one, would that mean the other three were no good? Would that mean the one Frank picked was the best period? Of corse not, so maybe this is a good thing.

Besides, it has been two months since Frank posted this. Too bad he didn't get any other speakers sooner.

MaxCast · « **Reply #313 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 06:26 pm »

Whew, we're zippin' along here, five posts before I could get mine out.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #314 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 06:39 pm »

Hearing subjective descriptions would have been nice. Even if one was a "winner", I could see another reader choosing one of the "losers" based on descriptions of relative strengths and weaknesses. We all have differing priorities.

toobluvr · « **Reply #315 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 06:42 pm »

Quote from: jackman

.....I'm a bit disappointed that Frank was so closed minded that he stopped his search after hearing one pair of speakers. ...

I don't think he was "closed-minded" at all.

Frank is hardly a newbie. He has lots of experience and he knows exactly what he wants in sound reproduction. And I'm also sure that when he hears it, he knows it...and he knows it quickly.

He heard something that pressed all is buttons and was hugely involving for him.

Once that happens.....once all the planets align and you hear something that just floors you, and really speaks to you, and says "this is it", why continue the search beyond that? Sometimes you "just know" when a piece of gear is "right"......and there is no need for futher listening and comparisons.

It is a lot easier for an experienced listener and gear junkie to be quickly decisive. Someone with less experience should take more time and be more diligent in his comparisons. I think we all know which camp Frank is in.

zybar · « **Reply #316 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 06:45 pm »

Quote from: SP Pres

In fact, it’s probably a good thing you had a chance to hear the Salk product before ours. I have heard them myself at RMAF 2005 and I can say with a certain amount of certainty that if you like that type of presentation, you probably wouldn’t care too much for that of ours. Never say never - but if I were a betting man…

Bob,

Since I own a pair of HT3's and have spent a decent amount of time with your speakers (at the last two RMAF and Steve's house), I am not sure I agree. While they each have their own sound (maybe I will try and write up a comparison), I could easily live with both. Both are full range and have no glaring weaknesses. Both are very engaging and a pleasure to listen to for hours on end.

Anyway, just thought I would throw my two cents out there.

George

Bill Baker · « **Reply #317 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 07:00 pm »

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Then why would you say it? Looks like some feelings are gonna be hurt. I hope there is no crying..

Sorry, bad choice of words.

Obviously frank is not new to this industry and is the first to admit he has not heard everything out there. I am only wondering if one of the other contenders may have impress him equally or even more than what he experienced with the HT3s.

With all the buildup leading up to this point, I think we all would have been interested in his thoughts on "comparisons" between contenders.

We know Frank would not have "dissed" any of the speakers he heard and nobody would have taken offense once he made his final decision.

Oh well. Others were simply too slow in delivering and Frank ended up with a speaker he is completely satisfied with. That's all that matters in the end.

ajzepp · « **Reply #318 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 07:46 pm »

Personally, I don't think Frank choosing a speaker after a single audition is any more or less significant than choosing one after twenty auditions. The guy has been around this industry a long time. He's been to the shows, he's heard other peoples' systems, he knows what he wants for gosh sakes! Even if he had gone ahead with twenty demos, you guys know darn well that some of you/us would be throwing out ideas for numbers 21, 22, 23, and so on. There are all sorts of great speakers out there. Frank found what he was looking for, and he's happy as a pig in shit because of it. I say kudos to him, and of course to the Salk/Murphy team.

Something else to consider...how many Salk owners bought the product w/out hearing it? For those of us who went in another direction, how many of us had the Salks on our short list, even though we hadn't heard it? WHY was it on your short list? Cause you knew, even w/out hearing it, that is was a friggin AWESOME speaker! It's not like Frank stumbled upon some obscure brand and decided his search was over. You guys know that for the price range Frank was looking in, the Salks are arguably maxing it out - even with the presence of other strong contenders.

avahifi · « **Reply #319 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 08:10 pm »

OK, the HT3s are simple walnut with walnut front baffles. They have the premium (Sonicap) crossovers and the contour switch (which I prefer off). I have no problem with their effiiciency, we build amplfiers with plenty of power.

I am not quite sure how to take SP Pres' comments that, "If you like that type of presentation (Salk HT3), you probably wouldn’t care too much for that of ours." and so on.

My only strongly held opinion is that the system better play music. Am I missing something important in my years of experience?

If the Salk HT-3 speakers do play music to my ears, does that mean that SP Pres thinks Timepieces won't? I don't think so. Is SP Pres suggesting that I have settled for something lesser than I could have? I hope not. I certainly would still like to hear them (Timepieces) sometime. Am I sad that according to SP Pres it won't be now. No. I am satisfied with what I have now. Good wishes to all of you trying to do the very best you can for the sake of the music.

The Salk Veracity HT3s are now playing Graceland, and the spellbinding vocal quality is calling for my attention again. Gotta run.

Frank Van Alstine