Looking for a great loudspeaker system

konut · « **Reply #240 on:** 10 Jan 2006, 03:12 am »

I had missed your tally post on page 23. I get it now. Its been so long since I made the 'coffee' comment I had forgotten it was this thread!

Old timers disease kickin' in I guess.

strat95 · « **Reply #241 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 02:52 am »

Hello Frank,

I have been using your equipment for the last 10 years and have loved every minute of it. I have run into some info that may be of relevance to your search for an accurate loudspeaker. Please follow the link http://www.lipinskisound.com/about.php for more info. I am in no way affiliated with Lipinski Sound.

I have been eagerly reading this thread for speaker suggestions from other readers and yourself. There have been some interesting looking makes that I had not ever heard of. Thanks to all for the great suggestions.

I am on the market for new speakers because I feel that my B&W Matrix 803s2 are the weakest link in my system. I had the pleasure of listening to the best of your equipment a couple of years ago through Matrix 801s2 and was amazed at the difference. I have been considering getting a used pair for quite some time, especially since they are not that pricey on the used market. But I have held back thinking that there must be something even better out there for the money.

The Lipinski L-707 speakers meet your cost requirements but they do not meet the low end requirement. However, the more I read about them the more excited I get. Bob Katz's review, a mastering engineer whose work I admire and whose ears I trust, has raised my excitement about these speakers even more.

Please have a look at their site and share your thoughts with us. I look forward to your comments.

I was unaware of your health issues and I hope you have a rapid recovery.

Regards,

Ted V.

audiophile39 · « **Reply #242 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 06:38 pm »

Interesting backround of Lipinski speakers (Not to be confused with Lewinski, of DNA-stained black dress infamy). They are gaining ground with some well-respected audio engineers for their ultra transparency, however I can't speak to whether the qualities that make them superior in professional settings translate well to home audio applications. One caution: Strangely, they ship the speakers not in traditional cartons but in carrying cases that are protected only with a layer of foam. The guys at FedEx and UPS will have a field day with these speakers.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #243 on:** 20 Jan 2006, 10:35 pm »

I recall my cousin mentioning that his school's studio had a big audition with the Lipinskis. Ultimately, the school didn't buy them, they felt that they somehow sounded unnatural with acoustic classical material. Their standard reference are some concentric Tannoys, I forget which model, with some Dynes that I remember he mentioned hating offhand. He did say that they sounded fantastic with other material.

JoshK · « **Reply #244 on:** 21 Jan 2006, 01:10 am »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but

4. Neodymium Ring Radiator - super low distortion tweeters with frequency response up to 40kHz and extra wide dispersion.

&

8. A low-order crossover for the best phase response. We also selected the lowest possible crossover point to deliver the best transient response.

are in contradiction with eachother. Those ring radiators have a well known high distortion when crossed relatively low. They are only low distortion when crossed up reasonably high (like a ribbon) with steeper slopes to take all the demand off the tweeter.

In essense, a ring radiator is not much more than a surround, so it's Sd is minimal, and therefore can't play low.

skrivis · « **Reply #245 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 04:54 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but

4. Neodymium Ring Radiator - super low distortion tweeters with frequency response up to 40kHz and extra wide dispersion.

&

8. A low-order crossover for the best phase response. We also selected the lowest possible crossover point to deliver the best transient response.

are in contradiction with eachother. Those ring radiators have a well known high distortion when crossed relatively low. They are only low distortion when crossed up reasonably high ( ...

They don't say how low "low" is for the x-over freq. They also don't say what "low order" is for a x-over.

The Scanspeak R2904 doesn't look too bad at all crossed at 2K. I know of speakers crossing them at this freq. with 1st-order x-overs.

Hiquphon 20mm domes work well crossed at 2K and they have less piston area than the 25mm ring radiators.

A ring radiator could actually be lower distortion because the least well-controlled part of a dome (the center) is no longer there. If there's enough Xmax, it could easily move enough air.

ricmon · « **Reply #246 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 08:49 pm »

This is the longest thread every. So lety me add one more. An ex Willson enginer seems to making some intresting products. If this has not been added to the discusion here is the link.

http://www.escalantedesigns.com/viewer/home/pinyon.asd

avahifi · « **Reply #247 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 09:32 pm »

Well, I just checked out the link above.

It seems like everybody is making an excellent small two way system, many with an active subwoofer to go along with that.

Hey folks, we were doing that too. Our Biro L/1 speakers along with a Biro Kensington subwoofer provided great music full range along with the very best.

However, I am still looking for a full range floor standing system that does not need a separate active subwoofer. I want to be able to test our amplifiers and preamplifiers and DAC full range on a great full range neutral, transparent and uncolored loudspeaker system that is not priced into the stratisphere. We can do that right now with my highly upgraded B&W 801 Series II loudspeakers. MY only reservation is that these are twenty years old and there has to be something better out there by now within the criteria I have established.

Another small two way just is outside our criteria. I already have my very own set of Biro L/1s and they are about as good as a small two way system is going to get.

I was hoping for some kind of consensus here and that just is not happening so far.

I still remain hopeful. I do have a few sample speakers promised to demo, but none have shown up yet.

I still am reading your recommendations.

Thank you.

Frank Van Alstine

zybar · « **Reply #248 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 10:08 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

Well, I just checked out the link above.

It seems like everybody is making an excellent small two way system, many with an active subwoofer to go along with that.

Hey folks, we were doing that too. Our Biro L/1 speakers along with a Biro Kensington subwoofer provided great music full range along with the very best.

However, I am still looking for a full range floor standing system that does not need a separate active subwoofer. I want to be able to test our amplifiers and preamplifiers and DAC fu ...

Frank,

Based on an earlier tally, I thought the Salk Sound Veracity HT3 were one of the most recommended choices. When are you getting a pair?

I think there are quite a few of us on AC who think they will fill your specified requirements.

George

mark funk · « **Reply #249 on:** 25 Jan 2006, 10:57 pm »

Well Frank, You know Regnar/Dahlquist makes the RG10, A new DQ10 I guess. Thay say thay play 34hz to 27,000hz. Thats almost full range! I have DQ10s and I must say the fetvalve 550 is the only amp that made them play bass! But I do not know if RG10s are in the same class as B&W 801 S11. I am looking for full range speakers also and I think we are going to have a hard time finding anything to fit the bill these days. I saw this one audiofile mag, The guy was talking about some $120,000 a pair speaker and was not happy with the low end! I do not know if his electronics could not play bass or if the speakers could not, But still $120,000 and still on bass.

avahifi · « **Reply #250 on:** 26 Jan 2006, 02:16 pm »

As I mentioned before here, I was not happy with the bottom end of the new B&W800D speakers either ($20,000 a pair !!!).

The Sauk remains on my very short list and I am hoping for a demo pair one of these days soon.

Frank Van Alstine

skrivis · « **Reply #251 on:** 26 Jan 2006, 03:31 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

Well, I just checked out the link above.

It seems like everybody is making an excellent small two way system, many with an active subwoofer to go along with that.

Hey folks, we were doing that too. Our Biro L/1 speakers along with a Biro Kensington subwoofer provided great music full range along with the very best.

However, I am still looking for a full range floor standing system that does not need a separate active subwoofer. I want to be able to test our amplifiers and preamplifiers and DAC fu ...

It's probably at least an order of magnitude harder to design a good 3-way as to design a 2-way. The fact that you're adding in low bass frequencies makes it even harder.

How about Ohm Acoustics? I haven't heard any of their products in years, but I remember being very impressed with their presentation of a wide and solid soundstage. They offer a Home Trial program too. They're within your price range and they claim to handle low bass.

avahifi · « **Reply #252 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 02:20 pm »

My impression of Ohm speakers from years and years ago was not very favorible. Somebody would have to convince me they are a lot better now.

One problem of course is that an "omni" speaker is sending sound bouncing directly off of all the walls in the listening room, and we want the listening room to be mininized as much as possible. Reflections from our listening room were not part of the original musical recording and thus of course anything our listening room adds to the sound is dead wrong.

Frank Van Alstine

Bill Baker · « **Reply #253 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 02:39 pm »

Quote

My impression of Ohm speakers from years and years ago was not very favorible. Somebody would have to convince me they are a lot better now.

I have a few customers who own the newer version of these speakers. While they do enjoy them very much, I gathered from conversations that the bass is still not the most defined (still a bit boomy). I too have not heard these in years and these comments are strickly based on what others have told me.
I would imagine they are great speakers for musical experience but maybe not the best for using as a "reference".

skrivis · « **Reply #254 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 05:34 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

My impression of Ohm speakers from years and years ago was not very favorible. Somebody would have to convince me they are a lot better now.

One problem of course is that an "omni" speaker is sending sound bouncing directly off of all the walls in the listening room, and we want the listening room to be mininized as much as possible. Reflections from our listening room were not part of the original musical recording and thus of course anything our listening room adds to the sound is dead wrong.

Frank Van Alstine

Unlike the original F, more recent Ohm speakers are not omnidirectional. They're far closer to the Constant Directivity concept.

Ohm speakers may have other problems, but this is probably not an area to worry about.

toobluvr · « **Reply #255 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 05:55 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

I could use recommendations for a great loudspeaker system that is not silly priced.

Our Biro L/1s are going out of production because critical parts have become unavailable.

For full range listening (where I need deep bass performance) I am still using a set of significantly upgraded B&W 801 Series Two loudspeakers. We have reworked the crossover in accordance to the info we published in Audio Basics years ago, and have damped the tweeter and midrange enclosures and drivers. They are great speakers ...

Hi Frank,

You can certainly do a lot worse than these:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1143515509

The sound is spacious, detailed, impactful, nuanced and refined. The overall effect is musical and captivating. Throw in gorgeous looks and it is quite a package. You will be getting an awful lot of speaker for the price.

I own a pair of Heron "i" and my buddy owns a pair of the earlier Blue Heron 1. We are both getting excellent results. While biwiring might improve things, neither of us do so, so in my estimation, it is not a pre-requisite for great sound.

manufacturer's website:

http://meadowlarkaudio.com/bh2.htm

See a review here:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0105/meadowlarkblueheron.htm

Good luck.....

John

zybar · « **Reply #256 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 06:03 pm »

Meadowlark is out of business so buying their speakers might not be the best idea...

George

skrivis · « **Reply #257 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 06:35 pm »

Quote from: skrivis

Unlike the original F, more recent Ohm speakers are not omnidirectional. They're far closer to the Constant Directivity concept.

Ohm speakers may have other problems, but this is probably not an area to worry about.

I started to write quite a bit for this reply, but I split it off to a new thread here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=25162

skrivis · « **Reply #258 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 06:42 pm »

Quote from: toobluvr

Hi Frank,

You can certainly do a lot worse than these:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1143515509

The sound is spacious, detailed, impactful, nuanced and refined. The overall effect is musical and captivating. Throw in gorgeous looks and it is quite a package. You will be getting an awful lot of speaker for the price.

I own a pair of Heron "i" and my buddy owns a pair of the earlier Blue Heron 1. We are both getting excellent results. While biwiring might improve things, ne ...

Fried Products makes speakers that follow much the same design philosophy, they tend to be less expensive, plus they're still in business. I think Frank has already rejected this style of speaker. However, if you or any of your friends want new speakers, Fried might be a better bet for you at this point.

toobluvr · « **Reply #259 on:** 27 Jan 2006, 06:51 pm »

Quote from: zybar

Meadowlark is out of business so buying their speakers might not be the best idea...

George

If they provided awesome sound last year when still in business, they still provide awesome sound now.

If you have eyes open and go in knowing the situation, you can get tremendous sound for your $. ML speakers were recognized as very good value....even at their list prices.

Pat McGinty made a very high quality product with respect to sound, construction, and reliability. So much so that he probably drove himself out of business by not charging enough. ML speakers are VERY well made and have no real history of failure or breakdown. And in the rare event that it should occur, I don't see it as an issue. Meadowlark uses all off-the-shelf drivers and components that are still available.

Besides, speakers don't typically "break"......or arrive with manufacturing defects. Apart from VMPS, that is....based on what I've read about them in these pages. And they've been a "darling" on this forum for ages. So apparently many here don't (or didn't) seem to be bothered by their reputation for inconsistent QC. Nor did they think buying them was such a bad idea.

To each his own.
If the objective is to listen to music in the long term through an awesome and beautiful transducer, then buying a great sounding, beautiful, and very well made product at a fraction of its cost is indeed a very good idea in my book. Assuming of course, it is to your taste and meets your needs.

If the objective is to just march it through your gear parade revolving door, and be faced with potential buyer reluctance and impaired resale value in the future, then perhaps it is not the best idea.

But I think that over time these speakers may achieve a kindof cult status, and I suspect that true music lovers will always value and desire these speakers.

My view is if you "buy smart" any product, even a non-current one, there is little downside, and potentially very good upside.