New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?

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audiojerry

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #40 on: 27 Feb 2006, 11:31 pm »
I can't speak for the reliability of other tube amps, but my Audio Research is a tank. I haven't replaced the tubes in this 1998 amp, and I listen alot. The tubes must have well over a thousand hours, the amp sounds fantastic, and I've had zero problems, other than one I created by short circuiting with a probe while checking bias. I'm feeling guilty about not replacing the tubes.

I have heard Frank's hybrid tube amp, and it does sounds terrific, but I still gravitate to the sound of my ARC.

skrivis

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #41 on: 28 Feb 2006, 03:20 pm »
Quote from: EMM801
The patent was issued at the start of Dyna's life (1953-1954), so even if Dyna renewed it, it would have long since expired. So other companies could very well have been copying them since. I was just curious whether they had any unusual electrical characteristics as a result of this that would have had an effect on performance. Evidently Dyna thought so, since the basic design was used on all their tube gear. Buit then, McIntosh has some funky scheme for winding theirs too, which they think is best. ...


'53-54 was tha tail end of Acrosound, and before Dyna was started.

Acrosound was where Hafler learned about transformers. I was told that the Dyna transformers were simply cheapened versions of Acro products. (I've got a TO-330, and a TO-300. Wish I had a pair of one or the other...)

I heard a story that Bob Carver went to David Hafler when he wanted to learn about transformers. That lead to Carver's huge tube amps.

My father regarded the McIntosh tube amps as superior, and the bifilar winding technique was likely part of that. However, they were much more expensive, so not as many were sold, and I don't know whether they were so much better than Dyna as to warrant the higher price for most people. Since far more Dyna amps were sold, they were inexpensive on the used market and many people started modifying them. Minnesota was particularly fertile ground for this. :) I think the large production, low cost, and good sound made Dyna stuff into classics. There were better products out there, but Dyna was just right for far more people.  (My father didn't have any McIntosh equipment, he built his own mono amp using an Acro transformer, and then had an HH Scott integrated amp when it came time for stereo.)

avahifi

New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #42 on: 1 Mar 2006, 07:18 pm »
The prototype faceplate for the new Ultimate 70 arrived from the sheet metal shop yesterday, so the rest of the chassis cannot be far behind. :)

Frank

EMM801

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #43 on: 4 Mar 2006, 06:12 pm »
Quote from: skrivis
'53-54 was tha tail end of Acrosound, and before Dyna was started.

Acrosound was where Hafler learned about transformers. I was told that the Dyna transformers were simply cheapened versions of Acro products. (I've got a TO-330, and a TO-300. Wish I had a pair of one or the other...)

I heard a story that Bob Carver went to David Hafler when he wanted to learn about transformers. That lead to Carver's huge tube amps.

My father regarded the McIntosh tube amps as superior, and the bifilar winding tec ...

 Dynaco was incorporated in October of 55. The transformers were not "cheapened versions" of Acrosound products, unless David Hafler succeeded in scamming the patent office and was lying in his interview with Vacuum Tube Valley. He describes the winding arrangement in detail there and how it differed from the Acrosound products. And Acrosound must have had very little impact; I never heard of them until a few years ago. Some say that Keroes and Hafler parted ways over kits. Who knows for sure now that Hafler (and presumably Keroes too) are deceased. Anyway. I was just curious whether AVA was contemplating using one of the "Dynaclone" xformers or departing from that design of a key component.

avahifi

New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #44 on: 4 Mar 2006, 07:02 pm »
I am hoping to work with Mike at Magnaquest for output transformers.

Frank Van Alstine

DavidDG

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #45 on: 5 Mar 2006, 03:55 am »
ElectraPrint is another company that makes some really nice sounding wide-band transformers. The company is based out of Las Vegas NV.

EMM801

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #46 on: 6 Mar 2006, 01:21 am »
Some amps are using toroids for output transformers now, are there any benefits/tradeoff to that apart from the large size of most toroids?

avahifi

New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #47 on: 6 Mar 2006, 12:49 pm »
Actually I would like to know more about anyone using a toroid for a vacuum tube amplifier output transformer.  I have heard bad things about this, but maybe the advice was dated.

Frank Van Alstine

mjgeorge

New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #48 on: 6 Mar 2006, 01:30 pm »
Check out www.plitron.com

skrivis

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #49 on: 6 Mar 2006, 01:38 pm »
Quote from: EMM801
Dynaco was incorporated in October of 55. The transformers were not "cheapened versions" of Acrosound products, unless David Hafler succeeded in scamming the patent office and was lying in his interview with Vacuum Tube Valley. He describes the winding arrangement in detail there and how it differed from the Acrosound products. And Acrosound must have had very little impact; I never heard of them until a few years ago. Some say that Keroes and Hafler parted ways over kits. Who knows for sure now that Hafler ...


"Scamming" the patent office isn't hard. :) What I heard was all anecdotal, and I've never read the Vacuum Tube Valley interview. (Is is available on the web?)

Acrosound did have a big impact because their products were the hot stuff to build an amp around in the early '50s. Even Heathkit used them for their Williamson/UltraLinear designs. Hafler probably would not have had the money or reputation to found Dyna if he hadn't been 1/2 of Acrosound.

The Acro x-formers were potted in really nice-looking cans, and people are still using them. (They go for a real premium when they show up used.) Anything that works like new 50 years later gets some respect from me. :)

Herb Keroes, from all the accounts I've heard, did not want to get into kits. He just wanted to sell superior x-formers. At that time, many people were building from scratch. Heathkit seemed to have kits tied up, although I imagine Knight and Lafayette, and maybe some others did have kits available. Going into competition with Heath took some balls.

The cutting edge products at that time were usually from articles in the magazines. Somewhere I have plans for an amp that my father built using an Acro x-former. It was fully cross-coupled in the front end and driver stages, used gas regulators for these stages, and had a pair of EL37s in PP with Ultralinear. It was a pretty complex beast for the time.

I can only tell you firsthand about the later Dyna SS stuff, but the impression I got of early Dyna, and the impression I had of later Dyna, was that it was a very good value. I don't think anyone regarded it as the best on the market. It didn't become "legendary" until there was a backlash against all of the IHF test "measures great" gear that tin ears like Julian Hirsch were pushing. People started noticing that the old Dyna tube gear didn't screw things up in the same way as much of the SS stuff. We shortly had people talking about TIM and stuff like that, and hi-end audio was reborn.

Audio was still being published at that time, and they seemed to take a fairly balanced view of things. The underground rags sure stirred things up though. I miss Audio. :)

skrivis

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #50 on: 6 Mar 2006, 01:42 pm »
Quote from: mjgeorge
Check out www.plitron.com


I've heard good things about Plitron. However, part of me notes that they only seem to make toroidal transformers and inductors. If all you have is a hammer, every problem will look like a nail. :-)

I wonder if anyone has really modelled transformers like they have circuits, or if it's still sort of a "black art?"

ohenry

New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #51 on: 6 Mar 2006, 02:01 pm »
Yep, Plitron seems to be the way to go.  Read this if you have a little time and a sense of humor:

http://meta-gizmo.com/Tri/4w/Plitron4W.html

skrivis

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #52 on: 6 Mar 2006, 02:26 pm »
Quote from: ohenry
Yep, Plitron seems to be the way to go.  Read this if you have a little time and a sense of humor:

http://meta-gizmo.com/Tri/4w/Plitron4W.html


Yeah, more Harvey Rosenberg BS. He's very good at spewing a bunch of words and not actually saying anything.

A few years ago he was claiming that he had died of a heart attack. I thought that was one of his best ideas. :)

Unfortunately, he's just pretending he was someone else. He had done this before, especially when he wrote to the magazines using a pseudonym. I bet he wrote most of his customer testimonials too. :)

ohenry

New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #53 on: 6 Mar 2006, 08:27 pm »
Quote from: skrivis
A few years ago he was claiming that he had died of a heart attack. I thought that was one of his best ideas. :)

Unfortunately, he's just pretending he was someone else. He had done this before, especially when he ...


I'm confused as usual.  So, you're saying that his death was a hoax, or am I reading it wrong?

http://stereophile.com/news/11097/

If it's a hoax, he continues to fool lots of people.  There were many posts on AA, some written by notable audio guys as well lamenting his passing.

skrivis

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #54 on: 6 Mar 2006, 08:47 pm »
Quote from: ohenry
Quote from: skrivis
A few years ago he was claiming that he had died of a heart attack. I thought that was one of his best ideas. :)

Unfortunately, he's just pretending he was someone else. He had done this before, especially when he ...


I'm confused as usual.  So, you're saying that his death was a hoax, or am I reading it wrong?

http://stereophile.com/news/11097/

If it's a hoax, he continues to fool lots of people.  There were many posts on AA, some written by notable audio guys as well lamenting his passing.


If he's dead, then he left a twin brother who's writing the same kind of silly stuff.

I got an e-mail from somebody at Meta-gizmo a couple of years ago, and it sure sounded like old Harv wrote it. Oh, and he's evidently a Dr. now. Dr. of what I don't know. :)

The copyright info at the bottom of: http://www.meta-gizmo.com/Tri/index-1.html makes me suspicious too, as well as the whois info for meta-gizmo.com

He evidently suckered in a lot of people over the years, so why not "notable audio guys?" Or maybe they're in on it. Maybe he wrote all the lamenting in other people's names.

Maybe some other con man is carrying on Harv's life's work? That's a definite possibility. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to duplicate his mumbo-jumbo with some practice.

avahifi

New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #55 on: 7 Mar 2006, 03:04 pm »
I received the chassis parts yesterday (faceplate, chassis, bottom plate) and they all fit together perfectly, and the board mounting holes match too.  Thanks much to Wayne Nielson for a perfect chassis engineering job.  

Next I am going to send all the parts off to my ace prototyle guy, Dean Kayser in Des Moines and we will be coming up with a working first sample soon.

I will let you know how the process is going.

Frank Van Alstine

skrivis

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #56 on: 7 Mar 2006, 06:04 pm »
Quote from: avahifi
I received the chassis parts yesterday (faceplate, chassis, bottom plate) and they all fit together perfectly, and the board mounting holes match too.  Thanks much to Wayne Nielson for a perfect chassis engineering job.  

Next I am going to send all the parts off to my ace prototyle guy, Dean Kayser in Des Moines and we will be coming up with a working first sample soon.

I will let you know how the process is going.

Frank Van Alstine


Dean has a cool job. He gets to hear all the latest stuff even before you do. :)

EMM801

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #57 on: 8 Mar 2006, 05:21 pm »
Quote from: avahifi
Actually I would like to know more about anyone using a toroid for a vacuum tube amplifier output transformer.  I have heard bad things about this, but maybe the advice was dated.

Frank Van Alstine


Frank, there is a company called Velleman that offers a 90wpc (actually 40/40 RMS) stereo power amp kit that uses toroids for output transformers. Go to www.vellemanusa.com, search "K4040" if my link doesn't take you there.
They have their illustrated assembly manual there as a pdf if anyone is interested. I heard that their kits come with the parts rolled in tape so they come off in the order required during assembly- nice touch.

avahifi

New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #58 on: 9 Mar 2006, 02:46 pm »
I did look at the Velleman web site and downloaded the "illustrated build manual" which came up with all blank pages.  If any of you have better results let me know.  To find the unit type K4040 in their search window at the bottom of the page.

90 watts "music power"  same old BS.

Anyway I called a local OEM distributator I do businness with and found out the retail price for the unassembled kit is $2000, my price $1600.

Ouch!

I think we can do a lot better than this.

Frank

skrivis

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New chassis for the Ultimate 70 Tube Amplifier?
« Reply #59 on: 9 Mar 2006, 02:59 pm »
Quote from: avahifi
I did look at the Velleman web site and downloaded the "illustrated build manual" which came up with all blank pages.  If any of you have better results let me know.  To find the unit type K4040 in their search window at the bottom of the page.

90 watts "music power"  same old BS.

Anyway I called a local OEM distributator I do businness with and found out the retail price for the unassembled kit is $2000, my price $1600.

Ouch!

I think we can do a lot better than this.

Frank


The pdf displayed fine for me in Acrobat Reader 7 on Linux. Are you using Acrobat, or Apple's Preview?