Does Totem Forrest have problem ? help please.

michaelv · « **on:** 4 Dec 2005, 10:21 pm »

Hi,
I have Totem Forrest. Recently, i've noticed that one of the Forrests have ringing sound (or vibrating) whenever i play CD that has pretty low frequency. I first thought it was bad recording from one channel, but i didn't hear it from other speaker. For example, i play cd of Diana Krall. It sounds good on my old speaker (Axiom Audio), but it is really bad on Totem. It doesn't happen all the time, but it's irritated.

So , the question is whethere it is a speaker problem ? and Is it expensive to get it fix?

Here is the problem. I am a second owner. So , I don't know if Totem will honor the warranty for the repair even though the speaker is only one year old and i have the original receipt. All in all, i am a little disappointed on Totem Forrest already. May be i will move to Aerial 6 series which is in the same price to Totem Forrest.

THanks.

Zero · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Dec 2005, 10:37 pm »

Totem's don't ring or rattle - ever - unless the driver is blown or if something got jolted lose in the cab.

Just for giggles - what are you running the Forst with ?

michaelv · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Dec 2005, 10:44 pm »

I have Rotel rcd-1072, rc-1070, and rb-1080 ( amp rated 200wpc).
thanks.

michaelv · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Dec 2005, 10:46 pm »

By the way, what do you mean by drive blown? Do you mean that whole speaker needs to be replaced? I bought the Totem about 5 months ago, and didnt' pay much attention until now that I listened all CDs i have.

Zero · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Dec 2005, 10:52 pm »

Michael,

I gotta tell you, that RCD-1072 is a wonderful player for the money. I haven't found much better under $1500.

If you hear any rattle from a driver, especially if its constant - that means it has been blown / over driven. The whole speaker does not need to be replaced, just the driver (in this case, the mid/woof).

The other possibility is that you are cranking it pretty loud and the amp is running out of steam.

polishpowerlifter · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Dec 2005, 10:55 pm »

Hey totem bro!!!

Email or contact Totem support they can give any repair history/service and steer you in the right direction and may warranty them if u have the receipt,check the website...good luck...

michaelv · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Dec 2005, 11:02 pm »

Thanks for the reply. I rarely crank up the volume past 12 oclock since my room is pretty small, so i think rotel amp rb-1080 has enough juice to drive totem.

The vibration is not constant though. Only with song that has very low frequency , then i can hear it. Like when i listen to Diana Krall, i can hear short vibration when musical instrument is Cello, or bass guitar....The same thing happens with the first song from the CD Guilty Pleasure of Babara Streisand.

I guess my driver is not blown up otherwise, the vibration/ringing will be constant, i guess. I first thought one of the channels from my amp was not ok, but i switched speaker left to right and only the one that has problem can be heard.

By replacing driver, i guess i have to send speaker to Totem Accoustic for check up and replace. The question is if this is a speaker problem , then it will need to be repaired and how much it cost..

If i can find it easy to do, i'll do it myself. thanks.

michaelv · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Dec 2005, 11:06 pm »

Polishpwer..., i will call Totem tomorrow to see if they can help me out. I have original receipt from previous owner, and i will keep serial number in hand to see if this speaker has been in service before..

Gosh, this is one of the most expensive item i've ever owned. I love Totem and I don't want to get rid of it if this is a real problem for me. If Totem charge me a new driver with reasonable cost, i'll certainly do it. If they honor the warranty, i will be super.

thanks again.

polishpowerlifter · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 12:18 am »

i have spoken to Totem on several occasions they are always approachable,friendly and willing to help within their means.I lost some jumpers and they replaced them free of charge even when I offered to pay

michaelv · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 03:31 am »

Thank, Polishpowerlifter. I think i will email them tomorrow as i live in the US. I look at their website , but i don't see support page at all. So, normall customer will have to send speaker back to the factory?

thanks.

Zero · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 04:09 am »

Michael,

As polish suggested;

Contact Totem, explain the situation and see what they have to say. Most companies (that deal with the volume Totem does) will typically not honor a warranty if you did not buy your speaker from an authorized dealer. The mid-woofer they use is pretty pricey, too.

On a MUCH more important note;

never - ever - ever- turn it up 'past' the 12 o clock. Just having it cranked to the 12 o clock position has your Rotel operating at full power - anything past is going to be distortion - which causes damage to your speakers. I personally never take it past the 11...... While Rotel is solid gear, it does have a limit and the Forest is a speaker that will realize that amplifiers limit very quickly.

Contact Totem through this address;

info@totemacoustic.com

michaelv · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 06:12 am »

AM6...
Just curious, why great speaker like the Forrest can't handle the volume past 12 oclock even though i have never tried that way. I only try once or twice at 12 o'clock to test the speaker and the amp. However, i have done that with cheaper speaker like M60 from axiomaudio.com without any distortion.

One thing i don't understand that this only happens to one speaker and only when musical instrument like bass guitar or Cello plays. Please bear with me if i understand it incorrectly as i'm new to this hobby. I think the driver is not blown out as the ringing does not happen constantly.

Another question: since the Forrest can handle up to 200w, should i get the amp with higher power than 200w ?

thanks.

RickB · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 06:41 am »

Over the past several years, the Totem Forests were one of my favorite speakers...the first time I heard them being powered by a set of the Nagra monoblocks was a truly great experience. We very, very rarely had any problems with them that weren't "owner induced"!

But, over the past couple of years I've seen a couple of the Hi-Vi D6.8 drivers used in the Forest that have had problems with the adhesion of the cloth spider to the basket.

It took us quite a while to figure out what the problem was, like you said, it comes and goes, so we took the unit out of the cabinet and ran different frequency test tones thru it until we found one that excited this effect...and found that it was an area of about 1/2" that the adhesive was not adhereing the outside perimeter of the spider to the cast basket...Totem sent us a replacement driver set...(and I repaired the buzzing driver and have them waiting for just the right time to build something!)

I used a small amount of "Goop" adhesive to reattach the loose portion of the cloth spider to the driver's basket. I hooked it up to an amp and a signal generator and couldn't get it to buzz again, so I pronounce the operation a success...

Another time we found a cracked cross over board that buzzed...again, Totem shipped us a replacement set of crossovers...and, once again, I kept the "broken" parts which are also awaiting their inclusion into a project...but only after I do an upgrade of the capacitors and resistors used in them and get rid of all the terminal block connectors (there are 19 connections on each crossover made with these terminals with their magnetic screws, etc.) and use joints made with Cardas solder...if I had an LCR meter I could check the impedence of the two air core chokes used and come up with a crossover schematic...

It seems as if the Forest is a pretty simple implementation of the HiVi D6.8 and a SEAS 25TAF/G tweeter...but Totem Acoustics claim to do some mods to the tweeter...still, though, about $90 worth of drivers in each speaker....$25 of inductors, $5, ok, let's be generous, $10 caps and resistors, $2 terminal blocks and hardboard....add up to $100 for WBT Binding posts, wire, rear terminal plate....now, these are retail prices from places like Madisound, Parts Express, Handmade Electronics, etc., not the prices a manufacturer gets...so, under $300 wholesale for parts minus the cabinets for a pair of $3K speakers....hmm, wonder why we DIY?

Let's see, according to Hi-Vi, build a 12 liter box with a 1.5" ID X 5" long port for the woofer, add a SEAS tweeter, build a crossover, add some nice Cardas binding posts, wire with your favorite wire, and even using solid silver wire, you'll save over $2K....even if you have to have a Totem dealer order you a set of the feet that's used on the Forests....

Than again, after hearing the new Audio Physic Tempos, Sparks, and Yara Evolution floorstanding speakers (in the same systems we used to use with the Totems) I have come away with a greater appreciation of their tweeters, which look a lot like the SEAS Excel T25C series, and the resultant transparency, clarity, and freedom from grain of the AP speakers in the upper reaches is greater than anything I previously heard from the Forests....if it is the Excel tweeter, than Madisound lists that tweeter alone at a price very similar to both of the drivers in the Forest...

So, check out the spider and see if that's where you're hearing the buzz....if Totem won't warranty the speaker, they're available from Parts Express:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=297-444&DID=7

Good Luck!

michaelv · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 07:32 am »

Thanks,Rickb.

Your information is really great. By the way, what is the spider? sorry for asking.

I'm not really a handyman and i have never built speaker before. If Totem does not honor the warranty, then i have no choice and i will try to install it.

May be i should learn how to build speaker.

RickB · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 08:10 am »

The spider is the corrugated stiff cloth ring that surrounds the voice coil and acts to center it....you can see it right behind the input terminal strip in the pictures, it'a a golden-brown color, and has annular rings...this is what I found to come loose...right where it is glued to the basket assembly....

michaelv · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 04:24 pm »

Thanks, RickB.

I have just emailed Totem and I hope they will honor the warranty. Do you know how hard it could be to replace the driver as i have never done this before?

I will probably buy the driver from Totem and have Totem authorized dealer (near my place) to install it. I just don't know how much it costs. If it is too expensive, then i think i will give it a try.

Thanks again.

RickB · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 04:32 pm »

Well, the drivers cost $63.30 each from Parts Express without shipping...the hardest part of replacing the driver is the twelve screws holding it in place!

Then there is a wire soldered to each one of the driver's terminals...so, if you can't solder, have someone else do it...but, more than likely the Totem Dealer will help you out....

pugs · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 04:38 pm »

I had some ringing with my NHTs a couple times. One time, it was becasuse I had them on spikes on a tile floor. Whenever I would crank them up, they would start sliding (slightly) on the floor creating a ringing vibration. The other time it was a binding post riging when I used the cheap copper jumper.

Zero · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 05:01 pm »

Michaelv,

For decades it has been an industry standard for nearly all manufactorers to have stereo seperates and integrateds reach full output power when the knob is at 12 o' clock. For reasons unknown to me, you can still twist it beyond but that but with most electronics (like Rotel) - you will be sending your speaker loads of distortion which will ultimately cause damage to your speakers. I have heard many reasons why this is still the standard way to do things - the reason that makes most sense to me is the mixture of marketing (giving the illusion of something being more power than it is), and flat out keeping with tradition.

You also ask why a speaker like Totem cannot take extreme current while a lesser inexpensive speaker like the M60 can. Well, the simple answer is that its all about design. Price doesn't equate to much of anything - both speakers have different design goals. The Forest can indeed get loud and remain clean - but only to a point. Its design goal was to fill a room with great sound, not to blast people in their seats. When you try to do something a speaker was not designed to do - it'll show. The Axioms on the other hand were designed with the average user in use who by nature will crank it every now and again. The Axioms are a far less demanding on your amplifier to, so they will more effortlessly deliver greater volumes.

Some speakers can go to absolutely insane levels without distortion (mtx, cerwin vega, klispch, klh, jbl) and won't set you back much at all. While others (like a few Totems, Yara's, Spendors, et all) are more meant for tamer listening sessions. For speakers that can capture that hifi goodness while giving you great volume, check out Reference 3A or Dynaudio. Totem's SPL hound is the 'wind'.

Rick also mentions a few problems I did not know about the Forest. Very interesting information there.

Rick also hits on a point about manufactors cost versus retail price. A lot of people who never investigate part costs and what goes into their speakers would be shocked to learn the 'value' of the components inside. From the Forest to the grand slam's.

But, its also imperative to realize that its easy to mimic another persons design. They already did the homework for you; Going through the painful process of selecting drivers to get the sound they want, Figuring out a cross-over, Determining an enclosure volume, than going through the painful process of tuning. Nevermind manufactoring costs for materials, employees, shipping, extra money left over for parts - not to mention, ya gotta make a profit to stay in business and to make it worthwhile.

The bottom of the line, there is more to a product than just the parts inside of it. For those who have patience and skill - the DIY can save a lot of cash and give you the reward of something built with your own hands and (hopefully) from your own mind. Even if you do not achieve a great product, it can be a wonderful learning experience!

As Craig mentioned - Totem solders the wire to the drivers but most worthwhile dealers will have someone there that has the tools and know-how. Its pretty quick and simple pricess.

michaelv · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Dec 2005, 06:33 pm »

Obviously, one of my Totem Forrest has problem. I will need to get it fix under the warranty (if i am lucky) or i have to pay for it. Sorry that i have asked different questions as i am new to this stuffs

I certainly won't do it myself as i'm not good at this and I love my Totem so that i wouldn't want to mess up with it. RickB also provide good information that i have never known before.

Anyway, thank to you all for suggestions . I guess i will have to wait until i hear from Totem support.