[JLM]

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine3/system.html

Congrats to DMason for pulling the players together through his pioneering efforts.

[smargo]

I don't know - is it me - but was this review a nice way of saying he hated (disliked) the clari -t twice - in his first review and his second. I don't know how the reviewer can call the clari-t thin sounding.

Thin meaning what? Can someone clarify?

regards,
smargo

[Charles D.]

No, it's not you. I also felt the review could have been more fair to Vinnie and Louis (I posted on this under the 6moons topic in the Omega section).

He says the Clari-T is thin and the Omega A8 balances it. I'm running a dual mono Clari-T with very neutral and revealing speakers. I don't detect anything thin about the Clari-T. There's nothing thin about it, although I'm going to get a pair A8s for the efficiency so I can play loudly when I want to and for the improvement in time coherence from single drivers. But thin? No.

It is actually a very positive review, however, with lots of good information and great pictures, but viewed by folks with more intimate knowledge of the equipment it does have its shortcomings.

[JLM]

Overall a positive review:

1. The title, "A Winning Systems Approach"
2. Vinnie is all about service and customer concern, to an astounding degree.
3. Only compliant is the light weight of the pre-amp.
4. Credited Vinnie and Louis for their collaborative results.

My observations of the system:

1. Why spend $800 for a passive pre-amp in a one sourse system when the source (Squeeze Box) has a wonderful volume control?
2. It should have been mentioned that the overall system cost could have been cut in half with no very little loss in performance (after all this was a show system).  This would have made the system performance all the more impressive.  
3. Comparisons (especially unqualified comparisons) of the product under review with one costing several times more like the SB to the Audio Aero Capitole urks me as it serves little purpose and can be misleading.  
4. I agree that my stock Clari-T is a bit thin (this is a very small quibble), but it synergizes well with my speakers.  
5. With the B200 spec'd to only reach 18,000 Hz, I'm not surprised that a golden ear would notice the slight roll off.  

Perhaps money comes easier to this reviewer than me, but for $5000 I expect a one source system to be a final destination with all around very good performance, not just pleasant.  Hand me some more sour grapes.

[GHM]

I thought the review was pretty fair. The ClariT does sound thin when comparing to tubes ..no doubt about it. It's not overly thin though. I would think a thicker sounding pair of speakers would balance it out.

I do agree the cost is less than advertised for this setup. Eye candy will cost ya. I'm more concerned with performance than how equipment looks .

Also many audiophiles shy away from digital volume controls. Some prefer only analog attenuators. Not completely sure why this is ? Some claim it strips the music of it's essence..who knows?

Maybe in a year or two I'll add the Squeeze box to my setup. and see how it compares..once things settle down. So far the hard drive systems I've heard haven't been truly impressive to me..maybe this little unit will change my mind.The convience is a winner. Of course tubes will still be in the mix some where. There's just no substitute for tubes

[michaelavorgna]

Hi JLM,

The question of value in audio is an interesting one. I know people who feel $5000 is an absurd amount to spend on hi-fi. On the other hand, I know people who spend more on a tweak. Perhaps I didn't zero in on your price/performance target but I think you'll agree, there ain't no golden standard.

It's also interesting to note, that you were able to figure out a less expensive alternative on your own. And I'm sure for those people whose money does not come as easily to them as it does to you, they will pursue even less expensive options. As far as how easily money comes to me, I consider that a rather personal question. It's certainly harder to come by than an off-handed comment

Cheers,
Michael

[JLM]

Michael,

Thanks for chiming in.  I liked your style, not overly flowery or wordy like many out there.  I truly apologize if I offended you.

The financial aspects must be factored into any of my buying decisions, that's just the way I was raised.  Some of my pride in ownership is knowing that there is good value in the stuff.  And hey, it should be an embarrassment if my simple $3000 system for whatever reason stomps a more complex $10,000 system.  That's where Vinnie and Louis fit in with simple battery and single driver solutions replacing power cords, power conditioners, crossovers, multiple drivers, etc.

Your review is no better or worse than most, regarding the consideration given to cost.  For some it might be a nice diversion to forget about the "real world" for a while, but personally if I open a review for an unknown piece of equipment and find out it's out of my price range, I don't read any further as its simply a waste of my time.  The point of dimishing returns can start knocking at $2000 systems and knocks really hard above a $5000 system, just IMO.

I probably live a sheltered life and don't realize how many well to do audiophiles are out there who don't mind spending thousands to make their audio systems look better.  OTOH over 9 million children die every year in the world due to proverty and I should be ashamed to own a $3000 audio system.  That's the values I struggle with and I have no right to put them on you too.  Again, I apologize.

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Michael,

Welcome to Audiocircle!  I think it is great that you joined this community and hope to see many more posts from you in the future.  

All,

Thanks for posting, and please allow me to make some comments:

I was very pleased with Michael's review.  I believe he made a very good effort and succeeded in covering all of the products (a system review) and explained how well they worked together.  I also believe that if his review was focused on only one of the components of the system, he would have gone into more detail of that particular component (ex. the modded SB2).  Being a reviewer (of the gear of many other manufacturers), I totally understand that he was only able to spend so much time on our system.

Regarding the Clari-T:

I'm running a dual mono Clari-T with very neutral and revealing speakers. I don't detect anything thin about the Clari-T. There's nothing thin about it, although I'm going to get a pair A8s for the efficiency so I can play loudly when I want to and for the improvement in time coherence from single drivers. But thin? No.

This is certainly my opinion of the Clari-T    (especially modded with the Auricaps).  I 'generally' do not like the "tube flavor" that is added to the sound, but I know there are those who do.  When the tube flavor is taken away, they tend to precieive this as "thinner" sounding.  I consider this more accurate sounding, as the even-ordered harmonic distortion of the tubes are not added into the sound.  Assuming that the sound of the source is very much to my liking, I want it amplified and sent to my speakers with the least amount of coloration.  But remember that this is a matter of taste, not right or wrong (ie, there is nothing wrong with tubes...just not my thing).  When Michael (who is a real lover of tubed gear) reviewed the Clari-T a few months back, it did not have the Auricap mod.  The Lotus (and custom Clari-T) does, and he stated in the review:

...I was not left wanting. No dryness, nothing brittle or arid. Vinnie suggests the Auricaps in the Lotus amp are largely responsible for the improvement in sound quality over the previously reviewed unit. I smell synergy too.... And all those positive traits that traveled with the Custom Clari-T are on display in the Lotus as well; super speed, excellent pace and deaf-defying quiet operation.

Obtaining such comments from a lover of tube gear means a lot to me and gives me hope that I can "win over" some of you tube heads  

Regarding the cost of the system:

I do agree the cost is less than advertised for this setup. Eye candy will cost ya. I'm more concerned with performance than how equipment looks .

You guys are correct in that the Lotus gear is more expensive because of the enclosure, and that the Clari-T line can do it all for less cost.  There are some who've been asking for something more in terms of appearance than a black anodized aluminum enclosure, so we were trying to appeal to as many people as we can.    

Regarding the comment about the light weight of the premap, it really isn't all the fault of the preamp.  It is the fact that we used polished brass disks under the spikes (very smooth), and the platform is so smooth as well.  I recently found an easy fix for this by placing a thin adhesive rubber disk to the bottom of the brass disk.  This totally stops the sliding because it adds friction.  Being that the Lotus amp weighs more, there is naturally more friction, but it still benefits from the same fix to the brass disks and now everything is nice and stable.  

I just want to reiterate that I appreciate the feedback of all my customers as well as reviewers of my products.  As long as we all discuss our opinions (of reviews, of components, of tastes in sound, etc.)  and state our experiences in a way that is respectful to each other, I think we are all contributing to this forum.  All your feedback is valuable to me and only serves to help me with my future product plans.  

Thanks again,

[michaelavorgna]

Hi JLM,

Thanks for the reply and none taken. I'd like to point out that some people who spend considerable amounts on home audio, also send considerable amounts to charity. These are not mutually exclusive interests.

[Charles D.]

Michael and I had a good exchange by e-mail, and I just wanted to note here how much effort goes into the reviews he does and how hard he strives to be fair and accurate. It was clear from talking to him that he definitely cares, and it's a pleasure to see him chime in on the discussion here. Otherwise I second Vinnie's good-natured summary  .

[michaelavorgna]

Hi Vinnie,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I dipped a cautious first toe into the AudioCircle pool, and I am very happy to report it came out intact. Good show. I’ve been to some other places where a reviewer would have pulled out a bloody stump.

Nice place you got here. And thanks for the kind words and the chance to hear your gear.

Cheers
Michael

[meby]

Mike,
    Just want to say that I enjoy your work and 6 moons is a great site. Keep up the good work

[GHM]

I also would like to thank Michael, Srajan and the bunch for their great reviews. Srajan and 6moons has been instrumental in helping me find my way through the audio jungle .Of course I can't leave out Dmason.He has been a great help also.I'm glad there's audio reviewers out there for the common man. Since being able to sample some of the gear out there isn't possible. Having someone's ears I trust to do it for me has been a great help. I think we favor a similar sound. Keep up the good work.  AKA Gmood1

[mcgsxr]

Welcome to AC Michael, nice to see the handiwork of our members out there getting some press!

As one of the Darkstar thread contributors, it is interesting to see how that information has gradually reached out to so many!

[smargo]

I also would like to thank Michael, Srajan and the bunch for their great reviews. Srajan and 6moons has been instrumental in helping me find my way through the audio jungle

I think my point is that every "reviewer" who reviewed the clari t in all of it's iterations, in some ways found faults with the clari t that to me came off as "although we respect vinni and his work, the clari t is "digital" and no matter how much we like the amp, deep down we have an unconcious bias towards digital".

It blows me away that so many people on vinni'e website who gave testimonials swear they hear a magic with the amp yet none of the 5 or 6 reviewers on the online magazine's, really liked it - and you may coat whatever they said in sugar - but the bottom line is you know they didn't like it.

I'm not cooking up any conspiracy theories here, but doesn't anybody find it odd that the reviews weren't as good as you thought they should be

If one of the "reviewers" just had said " I loved the amp so much- I bought the review sample".

Or even "As a reviewer I need an amp that is neutral, and lets me review neutrally....

I don't know but I continue to hear magic moments with the clari t that simply redefine articulation, tone, staging, and presence - i have also spent time learning what works with the clarit to bring out it's best and what bring's out it's worst. I really don't mind spending time with it.

To me, it's a very good amp with a real grown up sound, with some clever designing and  technical skills that  I'm wondering why it's not on anybody's "Best of 2005" especially considering it's price tag.

Are you kidding me, when was the last time something this good came along that was so ridiculous cheap for the sound quality you get back. I'm thinking in 94 when radio shack came out the "3900" cd player that blew everybody away because it sounded - at least as a transport as good as like the 5 and 6 thousand transports that were around then. Transports were big in the early 90's - funny, where are they now?

Oh by the way - My vote for best product of the year is the dual clari t amp  - guess what - i bought the review sample.

Thanks Vinnie for an amazing amp - that keeps getting better and better like a fine wine!



Happy Holidays

Smargo

[GHM]

The ClariT is a nice sounding little amplifier. I'm sure the dual mono is better yet. If you take a hard look at most reviewers. Most of them favor tubes in their system. Maybe not all the way through..but in small increments the tubes are mixed in some where. Guitarists favor certain tubes for their Guitar amplifiers. Does this mean the sound of the guitar isn't neutral?

Why is that? Well for one, recordings aren't always neutral themselves.
Take for example some of Eric Claptons music. I really like his music.But the recordings are terrible. No live performance should sound this irritating. Live music has a sense of warmth to it..it's not neutral.

You have recordings where everything is recorded through tubes. Some err to the side of being too rounded. There's really no neutral ground here.
Now if a person favors dry and sterile..which some do. That's ok too. This is where I think the recording engineer got carried away with his equalizer.
Raising the treble to unknown levels thinking everyone listens to music on a car stereo system.

There's no perfect piece of gear out there. Sometimes you have to play the field to get what you want from your audio equipment. This means mixing and matching. Listen to cuts of Russel Dawkin's recording of the Ukranian and Television Orchestra performing Romeo and Juliet. Now this is how music should be recorded! Unfortunetly some don't think it's worth the effort or money to make recordings this natural.

This is where adding flavor to replace what has been stripped comes in. I personally don't listen to main stream music on my audio system. It's just not enjoyable. A high resolution audiophile system will show the faults in the main stream recordings every time. This is were the listener fatigue comes from. I guess you can call this neutral. Neutral isn't always enjoyable. In order to listen to main stream recordings and to keep from running from the room screaming.  I and others need a bit of warmth on some recordings that don't have it..that's just how it is.

I've yet to see or hear a piece of audio equipment or recording that was made for everyone..it doesn't exist. If you've found ultimate bliss enjoy it.I wouldn't worry about what the reviewers say as long as I can enjoy the music..all of it.

Good listening