my PC jukebox strategy & questions

Hoots · « **on:** 24 Nov 2005, 08:23 pm »

I am wanting to upgrade my PC audio solution. I will share my thoughts and ask some questions. Your feedback is much appreciated.

QUESTIONS:

1. If I am using an external DAC and external P1a w/socs then would there be an advantage to using a higher priced sound card like Lynx vs say m-Audio TRANSIT?

2. Can you switch between lossless compression and .wav without degrading the file?

3. WOuld JRIVER Media Center provide the same sound quality as Foobar2000 (w/o using 24/96 in Foobar)? Would it's ripper work as well as EAC?

CURRENT SETUP:
* HP Media Center PC w/Audigy card (forgot model)
* I also have a PIII Tower PC and laptop on my LAN
* I have a REVO card in the box from an older setup
* Perpetual technology P1A w/SOCS for Onix Ref 3 speakers
* Emotiva pre/pro w/DAC similar sounding to P3A
* Loaded SW: MCE, MusicMatch, EAC, FLAC, Media Monkey, Foobar2000
* MCE Keyboard
* two ipods

SOUND CARDS under consideration:

1. Audigy - came with my HP Media Center PC
* supports DVD and music playback
* biggest concern is that I'm told it upsamples to 48KHz

2. m-Audio Revolution
* I would have to swap cards and there are cables to the front panel that have slowed me in making the swap.
* does not support bit perfect audio w/o kernel streaming or ASIO

3. M-audio TRANSIT (USB)
* seems like a way to get around windows kernel-mixer
* manual config needed to switch between movies and music format

4. Empiracle Audio modified USB Transit
Q: How big a delta between the $500 version and $1k version?
Q: Which would make a bigger improvement: modified p3A DAC or modified TRANSIT? I assume both are desired?

FILE FORMATS:

1. .WAV
* seems to play on iPod and all sw players
* sounds great
* only concern is file size

2. FLAC
* concerned about support on iPod and select players like MCE

3. Apple lossless
* concerned about player support

4. Windows lossless
* concerned about iPod support
* pain to decode for transfer
Q: would it sound as good as the others?

PLAYERS under consideration:

1. JR River Media Center
* features of interest: display library by album art thumbnails, tagging, seems to support bit perfect
Q: can I run this on the same PC as MCE (launching either one)?
Q: does their ripper match EAC?

2. MCE
* features of interest: album art, one handed remote control, front end for my other media applications
* exploring TRANSIT usb sound card as weay around windows kernel-mixer.

3. Foobar2000
* 24/96 support, very popular and flexible, low memory, fast to sequence through menus, supports many file types
* Concerned about difficulty in getting the album art and tagging features I like from other players.

4. MusicMatch
* I like the ease of use and have been using it for years. I like the album art, supper tagging and other ease of use features.
* Doesn't seem to support FLAC or ASIO and kernel streaming

5. Media Monkey
* seems to support various file formats (wav, flac, etc.)
* album art display
* at first use it didn't seem to have the features of MusicMatch I like like album art browsing

6. iTunes
* popular, supports my iPod
* I don't like the features as well as MusicMatch...some may be my experience
* doesn't support FLAC

7. Medio w/Foobar plug-in
* I'm exciting about trying this one!

SQUEEZEBOX
* I am considering this option using the SlimServer sw on my HTPC and the receiver connected to my HiFi. The HTPC would be in a closet with calbe through the wall for connection to display and eye for kb/remote. I would use the server sw for browsing vs just the receiver display. A good soundcard in my PC would do the same job so it's a matter of which sounds better for the money. I like the server software and it's album art browsing but I don't want to use just the receiver display.

STORAGE
* 250 gb drives after rembate are around $70. I'm thinking of just buying 2 and putting them in my P3 box on the LAN. I have 2x200gb on my MCE box for MCE (mostly video).
* RAID systems seem expensive
* I have the original Cds but I realize restoration cd by cd would be a pain.
* I assume eventually a multi-tb storage system will be more affordable and I can transition.

I'm thinking about:

* JR River Media Center on my MCE maching for audio
* MCE as an alternative (if I can use both on the same machine)
* TRANSIT or modified from EA
* Audigy for movies
* P1A, Emo pre/pro w/DAC

I started a thread on the wrong board at:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23189

Thump553 · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Nov 2005, 12:07 am »

I'm interested in what you find missing in Media Monkey. I just started using it seriously maybe two weeks ago (99% of time with FLAC files) but it suits all my needs with a few minor quibbles.

Hoots · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Nov 2005, 04:11 pm »

Here are my thoughts on the players.

Please note that I have experience using Musicmatch and I haven't fully learned all the others so if I need some coaching on how to get the best out of another player let me know so I can revisit.

First, I should explain my priorities and interests:

1. Sound quality - which primarily seems to be driven by the ability of the player to support bit perfect playback from HD and play the lossless compressed file formats desired.

2. Tagging - I like to easily tag my files to support the browsing and sorting features I prefer in #3.

3. Library browsing
* sort by genre
* sort by artist then album then track
* view library by album cover art (artist, then album)

4. Ease of creating a playlist on the fly for one time listening - I like to browse my library and quickly add tracks to a playlist for that one-time listening session.

5. Display
* queue/playlist
* now playing info (album art, artist info, album info, etc.)
* switching between views- sometimes I listen and do something else on the screen, other times I like to view the "now playing info".

6. Theater View and control
* I mostly listen from a recliner using an MCE remote or MCE KB so busy mouse driven workstation graphics aren't ideal. They are excellent when I'm using the player on my notebook on the road.

7. Speed - I don't like delays in moving between menus and while browsing on my P4.

8. Transfer to iPod

MONKEY AUDIO
*I revisited the player for it's tagging. I it's easy to tag w/Amazon and edit myself. Seems harder for a string of songs from various albums. MusicMatch supper tagging seems better for that task. I have been tagging my FLAC files with Monkey.
* browse by album art feature of MM, MCE and JRiver
* simplified theater view of MCE and JRiver and especially the one had remote control

MUSICMATCH
* concerns: 1,6,8
- seems to need a USB sound card to support bit perfect audio because it doesn't support kernel streaming or ASIO (correct me if I'm wrong).
- no support for FLAC unless there is a plug-in I haven't found
- no theater view
- no plug-in anymore for iPod (but can use iTunes for that)

FOOBAR
* concerns: 2,3,5,6,8 w/o writing code or installing plug-ins that often doen't have manuals on required components and versions.

enough for now.....

At the moment I'm trying JRiver media center which has a lot of promise because it is has a theater view and lot's of selectable features & plug-ins from a workstation view...it's kinda like the combo of MusicMatch and MCE with more support for things like FLAC, iPods, and bit perfect audio.

Remember these comments are all initial and under construction as I learn and develop. Comments desired.

SCUBADON · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Nov 2005, 08:59 pm »

If your #1 concern is "sound quality", then it must be Foobar 2000. J River is a nice program and it does a lot; however, in the end, Foobar 200 just sounds better than anything else.

The higher end your DAC, AMP, and Speakers, the more you will need Foobar 2000. Might as well learn it now, experiment, read the forum. Sooner or later, it's where you will end up, unless I-tunes gets to 24/96.

Once you start "learning" Foobar, you will also enjoy the ability to make your player look and perform the way you want it to!

Good luck, Don

Hoots · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Nov 2005, 11:38 pm »

Is the only reason Foobar2000 sounds better because of the 24/96? If I'm using the Perpetual Technology P1A updsample engine to 24/96 do I need to do this w/Foobar?

The foobar site say it doesn't sound better ???

EchiDna · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Nov 2005, 01:46 am »

hoots - I got all of your concerns covered with one little piece of software - Meedio - not free but works fantastic.

http://www.meedio.com/products/index.html

It has a foobar plugin (gives you the SQ you want)
it has album art, various ways of sorting files, is remote friendly, takes the learning curve out of foobar, has theatre veiw, it's quick!

only sticky point - not sure about ipod transfers, but should be easy!

check it out here:

http://www.meedio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=159291

Hoots · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Nov 2005, 05:03 am »

thanks! I've read a little about meedio and will now try it with Foobar. I like the screen shots.

I have been playing with Foobar as well.

And of course I'm experimenting with JRiver

The ipod can be figured out one way or another...not a show stopper.

Hoots · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Nov 2005, 08:31 am »

The new version of MEEDIO broke the Foobar plug-in and an update is delayed/on-hold. There is a winamp plug-in.

I have played with Foobar, Meedio, JRiver and some SlimServer today. I can see benefits in all of them. I like the idea of Foobar2000 behind a front-end like Meedio allowing me to use either w/the same sound.