[Soundideas]

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/weiland_cryo_interview.htm       Here's a interview from Crag Goff of Kryophysics too ..... http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue21/goffinterview.htm                        Here's some feedback on this on the Audio Asylum forum  http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/124269.html

[ScottMayo]

Yes, I enjoyed this quote from the thread:

- Tweekeng 15:29:31 11/14/05 (11)

In Reply to: 'tis a pity... posted by Duster on November 14, 2005 at 14:15:01:

I worked my way through college selling snake oil to audiophiles in a little ultra high-end audio boutique down in So. Cal.

I sold many systems that I still could not afford to this day to people with more money than brains. My boss loved me because being an engineering student I could baffle them with technical BS with out batting an eye.

I used to laugh all the way to the bank at these guys that could hear the difference between gold and sliver and standard interconnects during our listening tests, but I never changed them, they were listening to the exact same interconnects every time. They expected to hear a difference so they did.

So excuse me if I am a little cynical about this type of stuff. :p

Not nice, but it makes a point about sloppy testing technique, doesn't it.  

[skrivis]

Yes, I enjoyed this quote from the thread:

Not nice, but it makes a point about sloppy testing technique, doesn't it.  

If I have my computer cryo-treated, will it work better? Will it sound better?

Can a Sonicrock be cryo-treated?

[warnerwh]

That was way back when before cad design. There's now engineering teams that spend months and years designing IC's and speaker cables that are truly amazing.  You guys need to listen to these new generation cables before you make fun of them.  I"m starting to get bent out of shape. I have a pair of speaker cables that a team of 7 engineers spent two years working on. They're 30,000 a pair new but I'd sell my used ones for 10,000 including shipping.

[skrivis]

That was way back when before cad design. There's now engineering teams that spend months and years designing IC's and speaker cables that are truly amazing.  You guys need to listen to these new generation cables before you make fun of them.  I"m starting to get bent out of shape. I have a pair of speaker cables that a team of 7 engineers spent two years working on. They're 30,000 a pair new but I'd sell my used ones for 10,000 including shipping.

Those must have been some pretty sub-par engineers.

[warnerwh]

Skrivis: You'd have to hear them to believe them. These engineers all graduated with honors from MIT, and 3 have Phd's in physics. Two have had testicular tucks. Send me 10,000 dollars and I'll send them to you. I'll even eat the Paypal fee. Once you hear these cables you'll be amazed, I guarantee it.

[skrivis]

Skrivis: You'd have to hear them to believe them. These engineers all graduated with honors from MIT.  Send me 10,000 dollars and I'll send them to you. I'll even eat the Paypal fee. Once you hear these cables you'll be amazed, I guarantee it.

Why did they graduate with horrors?

[bhobba]

Tweekeng
I used to laugh all the way to the bank at these guys that could hear the difference between gold and sliver and standard interconnects during our listening tests, but I never changed them, they were listening to the exact same interconnects every time. They expected to hear a difference so they did.

Not just with cables - amplifiers as well:
http://www.mastersonaudio.com/audio/20020901.htm

I believe amplifiers can and do sound different - but I always get a laugh when I hear people say it is night and day.  Blind tests show otherwise.  I even believe cables and interconnects can and do sound different - not because I believe any of the pseudo scientific rubbish written about it but purely because reputable (at least they look reputable) people claim to be able to pick it blind:
http://www.videohifi.com/16_RISCH_ENG.htm

Personally I have never heard a difference in cables little alone one demonstrated under blind listening.  However, Leo Simpson, of Silicon Chip fame here in Australia, published a design for an ultra low distortion class A amp.  Its distortion was so low it exceeded the limits of the measuring equipment and he was able to demonstrate the differences in distortion between the types of interconnects used with the measuring equipment.  And he was surprised to actually hear differences between that amp and class A/B designs without such spectacularly low distortion. So one should always keep an open mind.

There is one way and only one way to ensure you are not being hoodwinked - blind listening.  On the rare occasions I have gone shopping for amplifiers I always take an SPL meter.  The salesman claims there are night and day differences - match SPL and listen and have a friend randomly select what you are listening to - guess what differences magically disappear (caveat: I am not an experienced listener and have heard differences between amps listening blind - but not night and day differences - that is for sure).  IMHO for amplifiers one should always get it in your system at home and have a prolonged comparison and if at the end of that you prefer the amp do a blind listening test to see if you can pick it.  If not send it back. That goes double - no quad triple for cables.

Tweekeng
So excuse me if I am a little cynical about this type of stuff.

You are not the only one - people like Tom Nousaine, Arny Krueger and Peter Aczel have been saying it for years.  While I tend toward their position that no difference actually exists I do not fully subscribe to it because reputable people claim to hear differences blind.  So I will keep an open mind - after all if you always ensure you can pick a difference blind what have you got to loose?

Thanks
Bill

[TheChairGuy]

'Hardy-har-har' skrivis, 'Yuck-yuck' ScottMayo and new cohort, 'Guffaw' bhobba;

I had two very interesting discussions with associates this past year.

My former Biz partner in PA has linked up with an innovative company there and is working with Eveready (batteries) and Norelco.  The company has a process whereby they change the molecular structure of nearly  any material that exists, natural or man-made.  It involves re-configuring atoms and molecules and such well beyond my scope of understanding (and yours).

I asked the CEO (and inventor) about cryogenics when I met him.  He said that is where his initial interest and eventual patent inspiration derived from.  Cryo does indeed re-arrange the molecular structure of materials he said...some positively, some negatively (for strength purposes).  His process does not use cryo, he has gone well beyond the rudiementary us of it...but the fact that he readily accepted cryo as changing molcular structure of materials seems to very much indicate there is far more than snake oil here.

The question isn't whether it does change molecular structure - it's whether it is beneficial audibly.

But, you're all too busy back-slapping each other on your ribaldry to get to the point: cryo does indeed do something, but does it benefit us as audiophiles/videophiles?  

[bhobba]

But, you're all too busy back-slapping each other on your ribaldry to get to the point: cryo does indeed do something, but does it benefit us as audiophiles/videophiles?

Simple - do a blind listening test.

Bill

[Dan Banquer]

Well Mr. Chair Guy, I think you're on the wrong track here. You need to check out Nathan's Sonicrocks. I'm willing to guarantee that with just a small order of Nathan's Sonicrocks that you will just forget all about this cryo stuff and just revel in audio bliss.
PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE SONIC ROCKS

             d.b.

[TheChairGuy]

Well Mr. Chair Guy, I think you're on the wrong track here. You need to check out Nathan's Sonicrocks. I'm willing to guarantee that with just a small order of Nathan's Sonicrocks that you will just forget all about this cryo stuff and just revel in audio bliss.
PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE SONIC ROCKS

d.b.

Oh, you're rolling now Danny-boy     ...me and my little Belgian friend, Le Mannequin Pis, can hardly control our bladders we're chortling so hard.

[ScottMayo]

Well Mr. Chair Guy, I think you're on the wrong track here. You need to check out Nathan's Sonicrocks. I'm willing to guarantee that with just a small order of Nathan's Sonicrocks that you will just forget all about this cryo stuff and just revel in audio bliss.

Oh, you're rolling now Danny-boy    ...

Do you know for certain it doesn't work? Because I know for certain that it does.

Oh, sure, Nathan and I and a few folk have had a good laugh poking fun. But in reality, Nathan's rocks work exactly as advertised. Why is why I deal them now. You know my take on this kind of thing - there is no WAY I sell anything that I don't believe works as advertised. I'd eat glass before I'd sell an Intelligent Chip - quantum effects, my left nostril. But the Sonicrock effect is as real as it gets.

You ought to try it, instead of being close-minded. The effect is astonishing. The theory is sound. It works, because it does works.

[JohnR]

Alright, well I think people are getting a bit sick and tired of the manner in which a certain contingent of users are expressing their opinions. Please recognize that there are many users on this site with differing views and opinions. Talk about the Sonicrock in the sonicrock thread, for example.

OK?

[srayle]

Wait! Wait! I know, hey guys, how about we get this REALLY BIG magnet, see, I mean REALLY REALLY big, like, really powerful, you know, and then we hook it up to my computer, and we put stuff in it and maybe take some pictures, and that way, we can get the ELECTRONS in the to ALL LINE UP and spin in the SAME DIRECTION, see, like PARALLEL, right?except for some of the electrons, they act kind of differently, and we'll make up some sort of mumbo jumbo about hydrogen and QUANTUM MECHANICS, you know, and that way we can put our STEREOS in it and make em sound better and charge lots of money to those AUDIO-HEADS and then when we're done with that, I know this doctor, see, and we can talk him into putting his PATIENTS into our machine and we can take pictures of those electrons and everything and charge LOTS of money! and we can maybe win the NOBEL PRIZES and then we can take the money and build this really cool clubhouse with a really WICKED sound system!

We just have to think of some scientifico-technical name for it, I dunno, how 'bout Magnetic Resonance Imaging...huh, well wadda you guys think?

[Steve]

"and that way, we can get the ELECTRONS in the to ALL LINE UP and spin in the SAME DIRECTION, see, like PARALLEL, right?except for some of the electrons, they act kind of differently,"

Nope, although you have read standard basic texts, you should do alot more research, even from 30-40 years ago. Actually, a low percentage of electrons are actually free in copper wire. A large percentage of electrons are "stuck" and don't 'move'. It has been demonstrated that electrons don't move so freely and fast as you seem to suggest.

It all gets very complicated and that is why texts keep it simple. They are  dealing mainly with learning to design, not physics.

Maybe the MIT grads and PHDs have information we don't?

[DeanSheen]

Look if you guys dismiss cryo out of hand why bother to post?

I've been following the cryo stuff for years now and enjoy reading about it.  I havent done much with it and only my SC/IC's are treated but in the future I intend to buy or treat several other items in my system.

Hopefully some knowldegeable actual Users will post in this thread.  This is a Cryo thread, not a cable thread on AA.

 

[Soundideas]

I have not tried the SonicRocks but I did try putting weights on top of my components and speakers and this kind of tweak really does work. I put a five pound weight on top of my satellite receiver and two five pound weights on my stereo receiver and three sand ceramic tiles on each speaker (I stacked the tiles on top of each other on top of my speakers)  and three tiles on top of the back of my TV. You have to move the weights around until you get the sound to your liking and this takes some time to get it right. Believe it or not but this tweak gets you closer to live  sound!

[Scott F.]

......Why is why I deal them now. You know my take on this kind of thing - there is no WAY I sell anything that I don't believe works as advertised. ...

Do you ever get tired of shilling for yourself?


.....and for all you self professed 'engineers' that claim cryo treatment does nothing, I think you need to go take a course or two on metallurgy, or at an absolute minimum, a seminar or two on it's benefits. Think of it this way, you can use those towards keeping your stamp up (think CEU's).

It kills me to think that someone with an 'analyitical mind' such as an 'engineer', after learning what cryo treatment does that you don't believe that it will have some sort of effect on the sound (positive or negative).

I'm sorry, I just get tired of reading this same old drivel for the same people over and over and over again.
Good grief, give it a farging rest already.

[Dan Banquer]

Well Scott F. I think you may enjoy reading this before rushing to judgement.
          d.b.

http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/silversmithaudiocables.php