Sony's new ES Line All-In-One (Digital Power)

kendrid · « **Reply #340 on:** 10 Oct 2003, 04:02 pm »

The link to the 700ES manual without having to search is:
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/AVDC700ES.pdf

kendrid · « **Reply #341 on:** 20 Oct 2003, 06:31 pm »

I post my comparison of the S50ES vs 2000ES here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=5282.msg46864#46864

daninthemix · « **Reply #342 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 12:54 pm »

I asked Sony about the flagship DA9000ES, and they told me a couple of interesting things:

1. The Sony CANNOT receive audio from the Pioneer DVD players over the iLink input. Presumably because the two companies both use proprietary flow control protocols? (certainly the Sony does, anyway). That's incredibly annoying, as I was hoping to use the Pioneer to send PCM/Bitstream/DSD to the Sony over iLink...does anyone know if Sony plans to release a DVD player with iLink?

2. They also claimed that the unit was all but immune to mains noise due to the all signals being handled internally in a DSD or PWM format using 1-bit pulses which are not subject to temporal variation...dunno whether there's any truth in this or not.

I do think it's slightly despicable that they use a universal port like firewire and then implement it so it can only talk to Sony devices...

JoshK · « **Reply #343 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 01:52 pm »

Quote from: daninthemix

I asked Sony about the flagship DA9000ES, and they told me a couple of interesting things:

1. The Sony CANNOT receive audio from the Pioneer DVD players over the iLink input. Presumably because the two companies both use proprietary flow control protocols? (certainly the Sony does, anyway). That's incredibly annoying, as I was hoping to use the Pioneer to send PCM/Bitstream/DSD to the Sony over iLink...does anyone know if Sony plans to release a DVD player with iLink?

2. They also claimed that the uni ...

This is standard early technology CYA marketing from the big boys. Sony is coming out with a SCD-XA9000ES player with ilink. I just saw it on J&R's website. It is presumably the replacement for the XA777ES.

daninthemix · « **Reply #344 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 02:01 pm »

That's the SACD player - what about releasing a range of reasonably (sub 1k) priced DVD players with iLink?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #345 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 06:32 pm »

I'd be more excited about the digilink if Sony would add DVD-A capability. Yeah, keep dreaming, I know. But I think Sony's unwillingness to acknowledge the other format is holding both back.

I read recently that last year 650,000 LPs were sold in the US, vs 235,000 SACDs & DVD-A's combined!

Does sony want another minidisc?

Still, I'm gonna be anxious to see the new Sony recvr line.

4ears · « **Reply #346 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 07:54 pm »

I don't know the source of the figures you mention, but the Rolling Stones SACD hybrid titles have combined sold in the millions. They may not be counting hybrids as SACDs, but that's why I bought them. Plus the Dark Side of the Moon SACD hybrid sold a lot.

Brad V · « **Reply #347 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 08:02 pm »

Rob is correct in his figures. He's quoting from the same pro article I read.

>>>
I don't know the source of the figures you mention, but the Rolling Stones SACD hybrid titles have combined sold in the millions.
>>>

Sorry, this hasn't been done on SACD, AFAIK. If it has, please point me to the article.

Vinyl not only outsold SACD and DVD/Audio, but was the only audio media that had an increase for 2002. Several articles have been printed about the Vinyl surge that is going on, with more players being sold and albums purchased. It only stands to reason that finally people realize which has a better sound and by far.

Have a great day,

Brad

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #348 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 08:16 pm »

I think the "surge" of vinyl is basically a "bounce at the bottom", and certainly the LP is on it's deathbed. A lot of LP sales is d/t DJs using them to scratch & mix and is totally unrelated to s/q issues. Even with the mild bump in sales, at under 700,000 units per year, vinyl sales are neglidgable.

Sales wise, the article Brad & I are alluding to refers not to hybrids but full blown real SACDs and DVD-A. I won't dispute the sales of the Stones discs, they probably have sold that many. But not one person in one 1000 likely even knows they have an SACD, as ABKO wouldn't allow the deal to fly if the discs' packaging made any reference to SACD (if they are so marked, the print is very small, and I've never seen it). The were concerned that no one would know what it was and would be confused.

I think this is sad, given that SACD & DVD-A both cream the LP. I just wish they'd take the approach of "high rez vs the status quo" and go for the dollars on the table instead of squabling over nickels on the floor.

Brad V · « **Reply #349 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 08:31 pm »

Hi Rob,

>>> I think this is sad, given that SACD & DVD-A both cream the LP.
>>>

You evidently haven't been exposed to excellent high end audio, to make that statement. Any audiophile that has heard the best of both, knows that LP's slaughter SACD's and DVD/Audio.

Personally my Vinyl rig is around $4k and has blown away the Audio Aero Capitole MKII, which costs twice as much. Just this past weekend, we compared the Sony XA777ES and my VPI Aries made it look like a $300 Best Buy special. I once didn't know how to clean records properly and within the last month, the improvement in my vinyl has improved 100%. So, there is much I'm still learning about it, however each with a nice improvement along the way.

Take a look at this link, by someone who has the best digital and analog rig. He basically says that vinyl is 4 times better than SACD. I wouldn't put it that high, however it is quite high.

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=vinyl&n=242890&highlight=Mikel&r=&session

and here's a picture of this guys setup:
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html

Once someone knows how to setup a Vinyl rig properly and to clean the records properly, the clicks and pops are the exception to the rule.

Have a great day,

Brad

Brad V · « **Reply #350 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 08:36 pm »

This

>>>
Take a look at this link, by someone who has the best digital and analog rig. He basically says that vinyl is 4 times better than SACD. I wouldn't put it that high, however it is quite high.

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=vinyl&n=242890&highlight=Mikel&r=&s ...
>>>

Should have said one of the best instead of the best.

Have a great day,

Brad

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #351 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 12:58 am »

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, Brad. I've never heard a TT over $10k, but nothing I've heard for less can equal even a midline SACD player. But that's just me.

And I don't give a damn what "every audiophile" knows. My ears, my 2 cents worth.

BTW, I hope you enjoy your LPs, and I further hope that my lack of enthusiam for the format won't impinge on your enjoyment.

Later,

Rob

Brad V · « **Reply #352 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 12:49 pm »

That's ok Rob. You are entitled to your opinion.

Just read this cool post
>>>
i just got an update from Classic Records regarding a delay/cancelation of the much-anticipated Bob Dylan Signature Lp Series. while i am kinda upset about these Lps being possibly cancelled.......the underlying issue here is pretty damn exciting.
Sony is considering getting back into vinyl.....think about that.

Sony doesn't play to lose. they have taken their lumps recently and are cutting costs and focusing on their core business. if vinyl is looking promising to them that can only be positive for all us vinyl lovers.

anyway.....this is very interesting.

mikel
>>>

Have a great day,

Brad

lpgorbet · « **Reply #353 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 01:24 pm »

Has anybody succeeded in downloading the Sony AVD-S500ES manual? I've gone to the link, downloaded, and only received an apparently corrupted (per Adobe Reader 6.0) file of 2.2 MB --- the link says it should be something like 3.6 MB.

4ears · « **Reply #354 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 01:35 pm »

I tried downloading that Sony file a long time ago and it said there was an error in it and wouldn't let me proceed.

4ears · « **Reply #355 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 01:41 pm »

SACD vs. vinyl:

I have read comments by many engineers and artists stating that the DSD recording (which the SACD is made from) is indistinguishable from the master tape.

Have you *ever* heard an engineer say that an LP was indistinguishable from the master tape? Let me answer for you: No, you have not.

I enjoy LPs but they are not in the same ballpark as SACD. And I don't care if someone has a turntable with its own separate air compressor as big as a freezer in another room. The physical limitations of vinyl are real, and they get worse and worse as you proceed into the side. The first couple of tracks have a lot more potential in them than the last two on a side, for instance.

Here is a link to an article by a guy who cuts records every day. While he doesn't make any comparisons, he does talk about vinyl's limitations:

http://www.recordtech.com/prodsounds.htm

audiojerry · « **Reply #356 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 09:04 pm »

I think we are drifting from the topic, but if we are voting, I still think vinyl sounds the best in spite of it's limitations and imperfections. Yes, there are tons of badly recorded, badly transferred, and badly pressed vinyl. But if you have a quality recording, no digital format and playback medium can touch an all analog format and playback medium. I believe it relates to preserving the integrity of the original analog waveform. When it is converted to bits and returned back again as analog, something gets corrupted in the translation.

It's for this very reason that I will not be one of the first users of a transport beam for travel - no "beam me up Scotty" for me!

_scotty_ · « **Reply #357 on:** 23 Oct 2003, 01:22 am »

Thats fine, you can walk all the way home. I listen to both formats and while both are rewarding they are essentially apples and oranges in my system. They are both enjoyable but so different that they have little in common with one another. The vinyl format is defined by its' limitations which are well known. The digital medium has boundries and limits but what they are and where they are is still subject to discovery. To me, the
higher resolution digital formats sound more real.

RussKon · « **Reply #358 on:** 23 Oct 2003, 03:07 am »

vinyl can sound very good....

but having said that.....

most manufacturers of receivers these days are not even bothering to include a phono preamp in their units....

unless you get up into the more expensive units....

sacd and dvd-a are much more accessible to more people.....

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #359 on:** 24 Oct 2003, 01:53 am »

This topic probably "deserves" its own thread, or maybe the poor guy who started it will need a new thread to discuss the topic he's interested in.