[Jonathan]

I'm going to make the change permanent and go with the Sony over my separates.  I am replacing a Unico integrated, Pioneer PD-65 CD player, Sony NS500V DVD/SACD player, and a bunch of Kimber PBJ interconnects.  

I did not get much of a chance tonight to do any serious listening, but I spent enough time to feel (pretty) confident that this is the right choice.  The Sony still sounds a bit rough around the edges compared to my Unico, but I am assuming that this will smooth out as the unit breaks in

The truth is, I was hoping that this unit would sound as good as it does because I've grown very tired of the near-obsession I have with worrying about the sound of my hi-fi. I am just spending too much time reading and reading and reading about this cable and that power conditioner, and the other DAC, and the green pen and black pen, and on and on.  Maybe, if I were a wealthy guy and could actually afford to spend money on this hobby, it might be more enjoyable (or it might not), but at this point in my life I don't have the resources to throw any more money at my system (I'm a full time student at age 45!).  And I'm tired of selling one piece of gear to scrape together the funds to buy another piece of gear that I hope will sound good.  Anyway, it's been an interesting 15 years of noodling around with the likes of Acurus, Adcom, B&K, Dynaco, Krell, Paradigm, Rotel, Thiel, and a host of other things, but I just want to forget about gear and get back to listening to music.

I find it quite interesting that AudioJerry is contemplating a similar move, (and his 20K system certainly humbles my $2000 worth of stuff), but I understand where he's coming from, I think.  Sometimes enough is more than enough and becomes too much.

Finally, I'd like to thank all of you guys who pointed me in the direction of the Sony.  I also wish each of you the best of luck in finding what you're looking for in this crazy hobby.  Feel free to send me an email if you have any specific q's about the C70ES or if you're interested in buying any of the stuff I mentioned above. I prefer to sell locally (NE Ohio), but I'm willing to ship if I have to.  Pictures available upon request, too.

Adios,

Jon

[skchow]

I'm starting to get a little caught up all of the hype surrounding the sony myself.  I like simplicity, and an all in one solution would rock.  However, my speakers are 4 ohms.  Does anyone know if the sony c70es or even the c700es will be able to drive my speakers?   Thanks.

Sunny.

[Jay S]

Jon,

I know how you feel.  I am getting pretty tired myself.  I am on the lookout for the new Sony ES all-in-1 digital component here in HK (they have the old non-ES only) for my bedroom.  It will replace a (dead) Pioneer dvd player and tube integrated amp.  

In my main system I am looking into getting a modded hi-res player to replace my cd player, 2 dacs and a dvd player.  

I am actually now using my old Tosh dvd player as a transport in my living room.  It doesn't sound as good as my Cary but I find that I obsess less on the sound (and pay more attention to the music) when I accept that there are imperfections in the sound, rather than trying to be analytical.

Its all about the music.

All the best.

[kendrid]

To the owners of the all-in-one units:  When you have no source playing (paused or stopped) and you turn the volume up, do you hear a hiss?  I have an audible hiss with my 3000ES when the volume is at -20.  My normal TV volume is -30 to -35, so -20 is dangerously close.

I reported it over at avsforum in my mini-review, and another user anohter forum has the same issue.  It could be a bad batch of 3000ES', or just part of the design.

The hiss occurs in all modes with all types of inputs (analog, digital coax or toslink, etc).  

I was able to get another hour of music listening in tonight.  I am very happy with it.  I was planning on doing some consulting work tonight, but that got put off.  Friday night will be a small shootout between the 3000 and others.

I understand everyone that is talking about the constant upgrades.  I have grown tired of it (I have only been serious about his hobby for a around four years).  I have speakers I love and I hope the 3000ES, or one of the all-in-one units works out.

[kent]

It's not a hesitation before the menu comes up. The picture freezes and the audio drops out during playback. It's definitely not normal -- you can't watch a movie like this.

I had a similar problem, too, on my first 70 (a demo), but I didn't play DVDs; I had the problem on SACDS. It's a familiar kind of symptom to some owners of other Sony DVD players. The rumor on AA is that it's a laser misalignment thing.  

My new 70 (also a demo) doesn't have any problems out-of-the-box.

I'm glad for the 5 year warranty, that's for sure. Does anybody remember the first generation slimline Sony DVD players with the dreaded error code messages? Argh, drove me bananas for several months, and Sony was no help at all.

Anyway, FWIW, yes I've been crazy enough to buy two scratch-n-dents from Crutchfield now. Both looked mint. The current one works great. And it arrived even better broken in! (judging from the sound).  

It seems wise for new owners to test these players with all disc formats even ones you don't use regularly, right away, before your exchange period is up, and before you sell your other gear. In my case it wasn't even all SACD's, just SACD-multi-channel discs.

[kent]

Ric Schultz wrote:
.....all you need is to use some really killer Superclocks in this machine and the jitter will be extremely low and the sound should be killer.......cannot wait to tweak it up!

Ric, does it make sense to superclock these machines knowing that S-Master already eliminates the jitter (Clean Data Cycle)?

Bruno / Ric, did you ever continue this line of inquiry? (I may have missed the thread, sorry.)

The Sony technical paper sure is emphatic that they've eliminated jitter from the S-Master-Pro machines. If so, god bless 'em for it.  Ric, do you know something Sony's not telling us?

[Ric Schultz]

There is no such thing as completely remove jitter(well, maybe, someday).  In my experience, any digital piece of gear....no matter how it measures, no matter what any expert says, no matter what any piece of literature says......sounds better with better clocks.   If it has an external clock that runs a chip then making that clock better makes for better sound.....period.  

Wadia claims super low jitter, yet the guy at Great Northern Sound (who used to work for Wadia) puts Superclocks in the top of the line Wadia gear to great effect.  I have never heard of a piece of gear that did not improve sonically when installed with better made clocks.

So, Sony says......so Wadia says.....all stuff to get you to to buy their gear....they are not really tweakheads or they would use a better clock themselves.  The game of REALLY trying to make something sound better is another level up from normal engineering....I am not saying that certain designs are/are not less prone to jitter and that certain kinds of reclocking don't work.....I'm just saying you have to listen to every dang thing if you want to get to the top of the mountain......

Sony is a great company but they are not supertweakheads.....no way.  Neither are Tact, Spectron, PS Audio, Tripath, TI, B&O (icepower), Carver, etc.

If you have tweak eyes (with 25 years tweaking) then looking inside a stock commercial piece of gear is like looking at a stock Porsche after racing a formula one car.....There is so much more....so much more....this is what makes this game exciting.....it is not like computers or even Video where everything is laid out for the eyes to see.  Audio is really very subjective and only by listening can the best be done......In computers and video for instance everyone will agree which computer is faster and that the colors are most like the video standards.....very linear.  Audio is not linear like that....every damn solder joint is audible, even in the digital domain....yet there is no way to measure it or prove which type of solder is best......you can do straight wire bypass tests (have spent countless hours even with solder) and this is surely helpful, but since everything is at least slightly colored then the resultant sound is really the result of art......matching various transparent colors to arrive at the best sound in a given component......really like art.  You can underdamp or overdamp an component...some even claim that resistors have polarity and you should try them both ways.....I know wire is polarized and many manufacturers know this (Crump, ZCable, Mapleshade, Walker Audio, TRT, etc.).  This game is crazy complex.  There are no real simple answers.....This is why I like the game....It is infinite, like life, like God, like us.....If you are looking for the magic silver bullet I hope you find it but I personally like the ride (as long as my stereo keeps getting better- he he-which it has for 25 years----no end in site!).

Enjoying the ride,
Ric Schultz

[Sa-dono]

Okay, I just potentially got seriously interested in one of these units. I'll probably try one of these units in the main system, and throw it into the HT or gift it away if I don't like it. So I just want to clarify a couple points and ask a couple questions.

AVD-C70ES/AVD-C700ES vs. AVS-S50ES/AVD-S500ES
1) 5 disc changer vs. 1 disc player
2) 120 watts vs. 100 watts
3) single disc player will be the more likely modding candidate

Are there any other differences between the two?

AVS-S50ES/AVD-C70ES vs. AVD-S500ES/AVD-C700ES
1) S-Master modules vs. S-Master Pro modules (and included advantages)
2) new units add a 6th channel and Dolby-EX and DTS ES support

Again, are there any other differences?

Other questions I have...
1) How do you disable the fan?
2) Is the power cord soldered on or is it replacable?

That's all the questions I can think of for now. If I'm mistaken on any of these points, please clarify them. Thanks to anyone that can provide answers!

[Jay S]

Very useful recap.  I'd also like to know:

1.  Are these Sony all-in-1s multivolt, e.g. 100v - 240v
2.  Is there a way to make them play DVDs from all regions (region free hack?)

If so, I'd love an AVD-S500ES for my bedroom.  And, yes, I would also try it out in my main system, just to compare.

[Jonathan]

I'm starting to get a little caught up all of the hype surrounding the sony myself.  I like simplicity, and an all in one solution would rock.  However, my speakers are 4 ohms.  Does anyone know if the sony c70es or even the c700es will be able to drive my speakers?   Thanks.

Sunny.

Below the speaker terminals on the unit it says 6 ohms minimum, so you might be pushing it with 4. I'm not sure how sensitive the Sony will be to this issue.  Good luck.

[JackStraw]

I had a similar problem, too, on my first 70 (a demo), but I didn't play DVDs; I had the problem on SACDS. It's a familiar kind of symptom to some owners of other Sony DVD players. The rumor on AA is that it's a laser misalignment thing.  

My new 70 (also a demo) doesn't have any problems out-of-the-box.

I'm glad for the 5 year warranty, that's for sure. Does anybody remember the first generation slimline Sony DVD players with the dreaded error code messages? Argh, drove me bananas for several months ...

Thanks for the note, Kent. Based on the conversations that I had with two local Sony repair centers, I'm not confident that we'll get the problem straightened out for good. I'm leaning toward returning my unit for credit toward a C700ES.

[JackStraw]

Okay, I just potentially got seriously interested in one of these units. I'll probably try one of these units in the main system, and throw it into the HT or gift it away if I don't like it. So I just want to clarify a couple points and ask a couple questions.

AVD-C70ES/AVD-C700ES vs. AVS-S50ES/AVD-S500ES
1) 5 disc changer vs. 1 disc player
2) 120 watts vs. 100 watts
3) single disc player will be the more likely modding candidate

Are there any other differences between the two?

AVS-S50ES/AVD-C70 ...

Check out the back panels at Crutchfield.com. You'll see that the 70 has a component video input that the 50 lacks. And, note that the power ratings that you mentioned are spec'ed for 6 ohm speakers.

[audiojerry]

Hi Jonathan,
I recently sold my Unison Unico. I thought it was a sensational integrated,
and thought it sounded better than the C70 at this point, but the C70 provides so much more for less $$. If sound quality is the primary goal, you may want to compare for sound before deciding to sell. If you do compare, I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

Everyone likes save money and space, but I went down this road to get the best sound possible, and now I'm looking at possibly taking a step backwards to save money. I'm still not sure what I should do.

I know that others, like Dmason, are emphatic that the sound continues to improve with their Sony's, and that the newer generations will get even better. I'm sure that's true, but I am having a hard time coming to grips with letting go what I have taken so long to achieve. If I were frustrated or still disappointed with my current system, the decision would be a no-brainer - I'd dump my gear and go with the Sony.

For anyone who is still trying to achieve sonic satisfaction, but hasn't reached it yet, go with the Sony. My $595 unit is paired with $5k speakers, and it is not a mismatch.          

It bothers me that I'm endorsing the Sony so strongly when there are so many outstanding amp, preamp, cable, and digital manufacturers who belong to our Audiocircle. I don't wish to see them lose customers because of Sony. On the other hand, I'm still not convinced that the Sony is the equal of high quality separates based on sound quality alone.

[audiojerry]

BTW, audiojerry, did you connect this to a power conditioner or not ? Did you test with any analog inputs ?

I have it hooked up to a 7 amp OneAc isolation transformer plugged into
an PS Ultimate Outlet.

Regarding the Daruma's, I've owned them, but I much prefer Aurios Isolation Bearings. I haven't a/b'd the Sony with and without yet.

Regarding hiss, when I turn the volume up to maximum 46 on the Sony, there is a slight hiss from the tweeter, but I can only hear it if I put my ear within a few inches.

Regarding using external source gear, I hooked up my digital source to the AUX input of the Sony, and it sounded slightly better than Sony's onboard source. My digital source is outstanding, but I'm a bit surprised by this. I'm wondering if it might be due to isolation from all the business that's going on inside the Sony.

[JackStraw]

Audiojerry,
Good review.  I concur with your statements.  Keep in mind the unit keeps on breaking-in well over 150+ hrs (to be conservative).  The sound is truly fantastic.

Ok, I've got a few questions about breaking this unit in. Some are dead basic, some are probably almost unanswerable, but here goes anyway...

1) It sounds like the runin is mainly amp related, but has anyone isolated the CDP break in?

2) Do you have to break in each of the individual channels, or do they all get broken in during 2ch play? I have connected

3) What volume level is required to effectively run in the amp?

The buzz around this unit is remarkable. I wonder how many more passive for sale postings we'll see on this thread. I'll include my .sig below in case anyone is interested.

After very little evaluation I made the decision to quietly move my living room system over to this from my previous multi-piece solution (.sig below). I've contemplated picking up a Toslink IC to check out the benefits of keeping my MSB in the path. Although, I'm not sure that the AVD will allow you to play a CD and amplify another input (anyone?).

On a related note, I've recently picked up some of ACI's Emerald on-wall speakers. Talk about a non-intrusive system... WAF is off the scale, and I like it too. I feel the need for a sub, but I must say the Emerald on-walls get some nice bass reinforcement from the rear ports. They beg to be run full range.

[Jonathan]

Hi Jonathan,
I recently sold my Unison Unico. I thought it was a sensational integrated,
and thought it sounded better than the C70 at this point, but the C70 provides so much more for less $$. If sound quality is the primary goal, you may want to compare for sound before deciding to sell. If you do compare, I'd be interested in hearing your opinions.

Hey, Jerry,

At this point (again, it's only been a few hours), the Unico is subjectively better sounding than the Sony. I think the Sony may be a bit more detailed in the high end, and it may even have a tad more bottom, but there's a wonderful smoothness and refinement to the Unico that I don't yet hear from the Sony. It may be the solid state vs. tubed preamp, I'm not sure. I have to say that the Unico has been really first rate sounding. It's ever so slightly laid back, and I've heard more detail and space from other setups, but it is very enjoyable to listen to, and I still think it's one of the best 'cheapish' integrateds out there.

If I could afford a sub and the tweeter upgrades to my DeCapos that I want, and if all of my hi-fi stuff could fit in a cabinet with our TV set (like my wife wants   )  then maybe I'd keep what I have. At this point, however, I can finance the things I want with the sale of my other stuff, plus I can consolidate everthing into one box, which makes the wife happy (by the way, she thinks the Sony sounds great) and still have money left over.  Will I have some regrets? Probably. Will the Sony be the centerpiece of the last system I ever buy? I seriously doubt it.

That said, I think it'll be fine for the forseeable future, and when I'm back into the real world and earing money, I'll see how I feel about starting over.

[gary]

has anyone heard the AVD-S50ES? i found a place with a couple in stock for $400, but i'd like to hear how they compare to the 70ES before buying both.

-gary

[kendrid]

Can anyone confirm if their all-in-one units hiss when turned up to somewhat high levels?  Another 3000ES user has a bad hiss like the other two of us.

Thanks!

[Dmason]

Mine is dead silent, plugged into a Sutton Designs power conditioner. Your issues may have to do with quality of AC coming in.

I would imagine the AVD 50 to sound identical to the 70. Abit less power.

[kendrid]

Mine is dead silent, plugged into a Sutton Designs power conditioner. Your issues may have to do with quality of AC coming in.

I am going to pick up an Monster powerbar from CC tonight to see if it does anything.  If it helps, I will look into better conditioning.