Sony's new ES Line All-In-One (Digital Power)

TheeeChosenOne · « **on:** 25 Apr 2003, 07:07 am »

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=q5Oevgkb7PiemTezd86UtUYLvTig2xBTrnI=?CatalogCategoryID=BWQKC0%2eNQssAAAD0%2e7IllbTD&ProductID=sWQKC0%2eN000AAAD0htAllbTG&Dept=hav&Boutique=es

DVD-etc gave high marks (95 out of 100) to this DIGITAL HT receiver that ALSO plays SACD and progressive scan DVD.

Reviewer said he would give it 100/100 score if it wasn't for some very minor things. He mated it with B&W Nautilus towers and powered this hard to drive speaker with aplomb.

Looks like a great setup for a bedroom since it's so diminutively sleek.

There is also a 5 disc carousel model of this same design, but with 120 watts/channel. It retails for $1000

JackStraw · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Apr 2003, 04:04 pm »

Neat, but the link didn't work for me. What's the model #?

Brad · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Apr 2003, 02:47 am »

Here's another link

http://www.reliableaudiovideo.com/sonavdvdcdsa.html

BlackCat · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Apr 2003, 02:26 pm »

That's a pretty high value for THD there...and I'm wondering about the power rating into 6 ohms.

azryan · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Apr 2003, 06:18 pm »

That's not the Rec. I don't think.

The top of the line one is rated @ 200W x 7 and is the TA-9000ES... or something like that. Only read the small press release though.

I wonder is the dig. amps are the Sharp 1-bit deals. If it's pure digital and 1-bit from SACD to speaker wire that might be killer?

It's Sony though, so I'll certainly wait 'n see. hehe

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 May 2003, 06:40 am »

Being that there are relatively few reviews out there for these new ES All-In-One units, I contacted Oade Bros. about their performance.

The guys at Oade are straight-shooters and have never given me bad advice about performance of certain equipment, regardless of whether they sell it or not.

To bottom line it, Oade told me that the "soundstaging and clarity was amazing!" They said that they were totally "blown away by the sound" vs. the rest of the older ES line.

The only complaints they could come up with was that the smaller unit was "definitely a bit underpowered for larger rooms" and that they "lacked tone controls." Geez, 100 watts isn't enough? What are these guys running it with?

Aside from this, it appears that Sony has done a great job with these units. Sony appears to be coming out with more powerful units, but the currrent selection would do mid-size and small rooms perfectly.

The ES has always done me good, and this new crop looks to be right in line with its heritage. They're attractive and *great* space savers.......

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 May 2003, 08:43 pm »

Looks like Sony's new ES Digital line's source of amplification, is the Class T amplification made by Tripath. Tripath technology is also used by Bel Canto in their very highly rated eVo amps.

A substantial number of audio companies are churning out new digital equipment using Tripath technology. Looks like this is the ***new*** wave. (Latest addition--Marantz also recently signed up with Tripath):
http://www.tripath.com/press.htm

On the net, I've found more info., including this quote:
...."The solution was to develop a new digital amplifier technology called Digital Drive, which processes digital signals and adapts the amplifier's output to the particular input source you want to play. This technology eliminates the distortion that a traditional amplifier/preamplifier would introduce. "The beauty to the end user is that you're preserving the signal," says Smith. "The amplification matches itself to the characteristics of the signal you're using." Both SACD and Digital Drive are featured in Sony's new AVD-C70ES, which offers the performance of separate components with the convenience of an integrated system. Convenient and revolutionary—not a bad combination." ..........."In other words, for multichannel SACD they have direct digital amplifiers, circumventing the analog passthrough required with most component systems. There is no signal loss whatsoever."

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Check Out another thread:
http://db.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=hirez&m=127939
More raves as these units being *much* clearer than a Denon 3802 receiver and being excellent in SACD multichannel and redbook.
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FYI, a smaller Sony Digital amp has been rated on Audio Asylum with favorable reviews also:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=general&n=189728&highlight=str-sl7&r=&session=
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The Larger model ($680 on the net):

The Smaller Model ($550 on the net):

Ravi · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 May 2003, 09:10 pm »

This looks like a great find. It seems almost too good to be true. The fact its got everything in one, including SACD, and surround sound.

If this thing sounds as good as the Bel Canto Evo amps, then its the steal of the year.

Anyone jumped on it yet? $687 for all this seems way too cheap!!!

Martice · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 May 2003, 10:25 pm »

that once your receiver goes south, you also have to send in your dvd player. I've never liked "all in one" systems regardless of the price because of the "all or none" philosophy.

Ravi · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 May 2003, 12:55 am »

In that case, they've also got an all-digital receiver only, the Sony STR-SL7 receiver - $300 street .

Seems like a great deal, I may opt for that instead of the all-in-one for the exact reasons you mentioned.

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 May 2003, 03:54 am »

The ES units has a very long 5 year warranty which should relieve any fears about audiophile "all-in-oneness" reliability.

Jay S · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 May 2003, 04:02 am »

Digital amps are terrific for consumer gear since they are very efficient and reduce the importance of a big beefy power supply, which is where consumer gear generally cuts lots of corners.

I heard a digital all in 1 Sony at a friend's place and was not at all impressed. That said, he was using inexpensive Sony speakers.

I am intrigued by these digital all-in-1s as they have great potential for a 2nd system or for non-critical listening situations. And, over time, the quality will certainly improve.

Ravi · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 May 2003, 04:29 am »

Jay, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't the design of digital amps place less importance on the powersupply than SS or Tube amps?

Jay S · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 May 2003, 04:54 am »

Ravi, yes that is my point. Sorry if it wasn't clearly stated.

That being said, power supply quality is still important. My eAR Two digital amp has a very effective power line noise filter built in. It has also been tested to deliver 34A into 2 ohms, though it does so with a relatively small transformer. The small transfomer reduces the weight of the amp and the size of the case, which reduces parts, shipping and warehousing costs.

Martice · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 May 2003, 12:03 pm »

Quote

The ES units has a very long 5 year warranty which should relieve any fears about audiophile "all-in-oneness" reliability.
Quote

The point I made about "all in one" was not to point out any concerns about warranty work. Actually, I made the point about system down time when your DVD player fails to work, it also means that your receiver doesn't work, your tuner doesn't work and your DD and DTS decoder is out to lunch as well when you decide to take advantage of the ES 5 year warranty and have to ship your whole system in for repair. Now hopefully Sony's customer service is fast and efficient so that you don't have to purchase a 'hold me over' system until your main(?) system comes back.

I would never recommend an "all in one" system to anyone if they didn't already have a main system in place.

Quote
The ES units has a very long 5 year warranty which should relieve any fears about audiophile "all-in-oneness" reliability.
Quote

As you notice, none of the above information had any mention about "audiophile fears". Just a fear of not having my 2-channel or HT system for who knows how long if only one aspect of my "all in one" system decides to go south.

Brad · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 May 2003, 05:29 pm »

What type of speakers do you think will match well with the Sony AVD-c70es?

I've got Norh 4.0 ceramics in the Home Theater. They are great for HT, and good for music. I am considering Triangle Titus 202's.

Since I'm going to consolidate my systems, I want something that's a little better for music, but also low cost

Also, does anyone know if the Sony's component switching has the bandwidth to handle a hidef signal, and, does it have preamp outputs for the L/R channels? What options does it offer for x-over/bass management?

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 May 2003, 10:22 pm »

Quote from: Brad

Also, does anyone know if the Sony's component switching has the bandwidth to handle a hidef signal, and, does it have preamp outputs for the L/R channels? What options does it offer for x-over/bass management?

The DVD Etc. article reviewer had the one disc Sony tied to a HDTV. So, Yes it does have the bandwidth.

As far as connection options:

MaxCast · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 May 2003, 10:46 pm »

Ack! Is that a fan in the upper righthand corner?

Brad · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 May 2003, 12:40 am »

Is the DVD Etc review in the current issue?

I haven't been able to find it on-line. Thanks for the heads up on the HDTV.

Too bad about the L/R preamp outs. Hopefully it will sound good enough I won't worry about bypassing the internal digital amps.

Brad V · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 May 2003, 08:45 pm »

Hi,

I have done a lot of research and have also heard quite a few Digital amps. I haven't heard the Sony though. I've heard the last 2 Bel Canto Digital Amps, Tact M2150, PS Audio HCA-2 and a homegrown unit. They all had very nice sound and I would say good bang for the buck. Their sound is very smooth and easy to listen to.

Don't get the idea that there isn't any conversion/filter/etc... done from SACD or CD to what is being outputted.

Most digital amps that I have heard, converts the incoming signal to PWM. Let's take the Tact M2150 for instance. If you wanted to play a SACD, DVD/Audio or Vinyl, you'd have to take the analog signal and send it to the ADC. The Digital signal at that point would be PCM and the PCM would be changed to PWM.

I had hopes that the digital amps would be Nirvana, however I found the ultimate solution to be SET Amps. There just isn't any amp out there that can give you such a carved out soundstage and be so intimate. If someone tells you that this SS or Digital amp can do it, you better check it out for yourself, as I did. I was told how the Gamut D200, Pass Aleph, etc... would give me the same benefits that I heard from a SET amp that one of our members let me borrow. So, I went and listened. I have to tell you that the difference is laughable.

Back to digital amps. They are definitely the future for most vendors. The main reason, is that they are extremely cheap to build, light weight, very little heat and produce great sound for a small amount of money. Once things move further along, I don't see how the highend digital companies are going to survive.

Oh yes, the amp I ended up with is the Bel Canto SET40 (37 Watts), which powers my Excelarray's wonderfully.
http://members.aol.com/bvirgil311/excel.htm

Just my 2 cents,

Brad