New line of DACs. Info posted!

NealH · « **Reply #40 on:** 10 Dec 2005, 02:15 am »

Yes Danny, can you provide a couple brief comments pertaining to the perceived sonic differences among these three dacs? They sound very interesting and the price is indeed, a delight.

Jon L · « **Reply #41 on:** 10 Dec 2005, 02:26 am »

Quote from: tigzstudio

do you have a link to the specs for the 1.1 version?

All i know is what i am hearing is amazing, mind you, mine has all mods done to it...i have not heard the stock 1.3.

imo,
Its not always just the chip that matters tho, its the combination, quality of parts/build, and implementation.
however, I have not heard the AKM chip integrated in any dac...

do you know of any other dacs that have this chip?? you have me wanting to compare now, because i cant imagine something sounding a whole lot bett ...

Dont' worry. AKM 4396 DAC chip is very new, and there are very few players that use it. APL Hi-Fi's modded players use multiple AKM 4396 DAC chips, but their "entry" model (Denon 3910 mod) is $5000+ and their flagship (using same AKM chips) is $12,000+
http://www.aplhifi.com/DENON.html

It is also rumored that Accuphase's new top-of-line CDP's use the same AKM 4396 chips in multiple-parallel array.

That's why it would have been so cool if Zhalou used AKM 4396. A fully modded AkM 4396 DAC that very reasonable prices

BTW, where do you order the Zahlou DAC? Is there a link or phone number? Anyone there speak English?

_scotty_ · « **Reply #42 on:** 10 Dec 2005, 03:42 am »

I am currently using a modified JVC DVD player which uses an AKM DAC.
Its performance is very satisfying but I would be one of the first in line for a
DAC built around the AKM 4396. It would have the same qualities I now
enjoy kicked up another couple of notches.
Scotty

brj · « **Reply #43 on:** 10 Dec 2005, 04:32 am »

Quote from: Hoots

a) usb to DAC - I assume this would sound better than Revo sound card w/ASIO to DAC using SPDIF.

b) If I want to use SOCS for my Ref 3's then I assume I would have to go SPDIF to p1a and spdif to DAC which would require using a soundcard or TRANSIT USB box.

c) I assume the $1k EA Offramp (modified Transit) would be an outstanding combo with a high-end DAC and p1a.

Hoots, if these DACs implement a true USB -> I2S conversion, it has the potential to sound better than a signal chain with an S/PDIF connection in the middle. The benefit results thanks to the elimination of clock based jitter. (Part of the uncertainty hangs on which of the 3 USB protocols are used.) If implemented, you realize this benefit by running a USB out from your computer to the DAC. No soundcard, no S/PDIF, no nothing.

Of course, if you want to use SOCS, then you need the P-1A in the mix, and you may end up introducing more signal and/or clock conversions back into the stream. I don't know the P-1A well enough to evaluate the options. If you already have S/PDIF conversions in the chain, however, I can't see any benefit to using a USB input on the DAC.

kfr01 · « **Reply #44 on:** 10 Dec 2005, 07:21 am »

Quote from: rnhood

Yes Danny, can you provide a couple brief comments pertaining to the perceived sonic differences among these three dacs?

I second that.

Would like to know what the different levels would get me.

Milehighguy · « **Reply #45 on:** 10 Dec 2005, 06:15 pm »

Danny,
Do you know yet how much the sonicraft mods are going to cost, maybe ballpark estimate for the dac60? Could there be balanced outputs added by sonicraft at the same time, and for how much?

fabaudio · « **Reply #46 on:** 10 Dec 2005, 07:39 pm »

Quote from: prokennex

$470 for the Dac-60 does that include the sonic craft mods, if not what is the price of the Dac-60 with the mods? Danny can you be a little more specific on the sonic qualities brought by the sonic craft mods.

Tks Ray

I spoke briefly with Danny Thursday afternoon and $470.00 does not include the mod. I might add that he was using a modded unit in his system and was completely blown away by the upgrade(blackgates and other parts=more resolution/detail etc) which he believes cost roughly $190/200. I'm not aware if Sonic Craft offers various levels of mods.

srb · « **Reply #47 on:** 11 Dec 2005, 05:37 pm »

I am also in the waiting line for a USB version.

Question - I know there are many preamps with a pair of similar size tubes that are totally enclosed in the case. Don't most of those have some kind of bottom/side top vents to aid in cooling?

I know these are not power tubes, but should I not be worried about lack of ventilation in this enclosure?

FredT300B · « **Reply #48 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 02:16 pm »

Quote from: srb

Question - I know there are many preamps with a pair of similar size tubes that are totally enclosed in the case. Don't most of those have some kind of bottom/side top vents to aid in cooling?
I know these are not power tubes, but should I not be worried about lack of ventilation in this enclosure?

Don't worry about overheating. The cooling vents aren't visible in the pictures, but they run the full length of each side and cover most of the bottom panel, so the convection flow is from the bottom and out the sides. Good idea because my rack space is limited and I had to place a tube preamp on top of the DAC.

It's a very good sounding DAC and a good value at the asking price. Two R-core transformers with six separate regulated power supplies. No shortcuts were taken in the circuitry or the parts quality. The typical mainstream manufacturer would price it above $1K. I believe if you have an older CD player with a good transport like my Marantz CD-67SE this is a much better choice than the $1K+ CD player you would have to buy to equal its sound. Shipping from Hong Kong took seven days.

A more experienced friend and I did some mods, including a choke in the power supply, a Solen bypass cap, bypass caps on the cathode resistors, chassis damping, etc. I still need to replace the Wima-type caps with Sonicaps. Danny recommends a 3.3uF bypassed with a .01 teflon. I expect this mod will make the greatest difference of all, but I don't believe anyone will be disappointed with the sound of the stock DAC-60.

Pict of the inside of mine showing the ps choke mod but not the others at http://fredt300b.smugmug.com/gallery/132868/1/38101224

Bill A · « **Reply #49 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 03:21 pm »

O.K., I need to be educated about the USB port on the DAC. What's the purpose?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #50 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 04:52 pm »

Sorry, I was out of town some this weekend and this thread moved faster than I could respond.

Quote

Danny, did we hear the DAC60 stock or was that modified?

Is was a modded unit.

Quote

Do you know what the power supply is giving to the board?

No, I haven't gotten into much. I handed the units over to Jeff at Sonic Craft and let him dive into them. He is a wiz with that stuff and had the board traced out and was weighing out the cost of mods, what could be modded, and where the best money should be spent....

Jeff said that there is a lot that can be done with these units if one wanted to really take it to its limits. Jeff wanted to offer a mod that would be low cost and offer as much improvement as possible.

I was told that they already had really good power supplies.

Quote

$470 for the Dac-60 does that include the sonic craft mods, if not what is the price of the Dac-60 with the mods?

Pricing info is here and does not include mods: http://www.gr-research.com/components/lite_dacs.htm

Quote

Danny can you be a little more specific on the sonic qualities brought by the sonic craft mods.

Resolution and detail picked up and vocals became even more relaxed and natural. It was cleaner sounding. More dead space between notes...

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Yes Danny, can you provide a couple brief comments pertaining to the perceived sonic differences among these three dacs?

The DAC-AH was similar to my Ack dAck. The DAC-AH had a little better resolution but the noise floor was not quite as low. The battery powered Ack dAck with the Bybee filter on the input was just dead quite. The sound stage seamed a little more open on the DAC-AH.

Switching to the DAC-72 was like going to analog verses digital. Music became more emotionally involving and really opened up more. It was hard to go back from this point.

Moving then to the DAC-60 the inner resolution and subtle nuances became more apparent. There is no hotness, or harshness, but really good top end extension.

After the Sonic Craft mods to the DAC-60: The bottom end sounded cleaner, better defined, more controlled, and a little deeper. The noise floor dropped some, and inner resolution went up again. Just when you think, it can't get any cleaner than this, it does... This is the kind of DAC that makes you pull out everything to hear it all over again.

Quote

Do you know yet how much the sonicraft mods are going to cost, maybe ballpark estimate for the dac60?

I believe that Jeff mentioned that the parts alone would be in the $190. range and easy to implement. I am not sure yet what he might charge for the upgrade if he implements it, but he did indicate that he'd be glad to do it. Units can be ordered and sent straight to Sonic Craft for mods.

Quote

Could there be balanced outputs added by sonicraft at the same time, and for how much?

I'll have to check on that and if they can be added from the factory as well.

Quote

Question - I know there are many preamps with a pair of similar size tubes that are totally enclosed in the case. Don't most of those have some kind of bottom/side top vents to aid in cooling?

Like Fred mentioned, there are cooling vents down the sides.

Quote

O.K., I need to be educated about the USB port on the DAC. What's the purpose?

It allows one to plug their computer straight into the DAC.

kfr01 · « **Reply #51 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 04:54 pm »

Quote from: Bill A

O.K., I need to be educated about the USB port on the DAC. What's the purpose?

More and more of us are ripping all our CDs immediately into lossless audio on a media PC.

We find this solution to be superior to having a CD player. The convenience and cataloging is unbeatable and all possible sonic inconsistencies at the transport level are totally removed.

USB directly into the DAC removes a step from our current chain. i.e., I currently go USB -> SPDIF Converter -> DAC/PRE.

Bill A · « **Reply #52 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 05:10 pm »

So the USB port allows you to playback from your computer thru the DAC or are there others uses?

I guess you have to have special software to direct the audio data stream to the USB port? And, I suppose, the audio data can originate from any source that passes thru the computer, such as CD/DVD/Wave files etc.?

Sorry for such elementary questions but I'm WAY behind the curve on this one.

kfr01 · « **Reply #53 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 05:15 pm »

Quote from: Bill A

So the USB port allows you to playback from your computer thru the DAC or are there others uses?

I guess you have to have special software to direct the audio data stream to the USB port? And, I suppose, the audio data can originate from any source that passes thru the computer, such as CD/DVD/Wave files etc.?

Sorry for such elementary questions but I'm WAY behind the curve on this one.

Computer playback through the DAC is the primary use.

No special software is needed. The USB sound devices I use might have some simple driver that allows the pass through, but nothing special. Yes, the audio data can originate from any source. My personal favorite is music from the FLAC lossless format.

tigzstudio · « **Reply #54 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 06:24 pm »

hey danny,

which transport and amps were you using when you demo'ed the dac-60 with sonic craft mods?? and jsut the stock one??

Thanks!

Danny Richie · « **Reply #55 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 06:35 pm »

Quote

which transport and amps were you using when you demo'ed the dac-60 with sonic craft mods?? and jsut the stock one??

I was using my CEC transport and using all Dodd Audio tube gear. I was also using a Dodd Audio balanced power supply on everything and good cables.

rbrb · « **Reply #56 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 09:39 pm »

Just by going from the last few posts am I to assume that music stored on a PC will sound better if the signal is set to a DAC via USB rather than the coax out from a sound card like a M-Audio Audiophile 192???

studley · « **Reply #57 on:** 12 Dec 2005, 10:24 pm »

Quote from: Jon L

Dont' worry. AKM 4396 DAC chip is very new, and there are very few players that use it. APL Hi-Fi's modded players use multiple AKM 4396 DAC chips, but their "entry" model (Denon 3910 mod) is $5000+ and their flagship (using same AKM chips) is $12,000+
http://www.aplhifi.com/DENON.html

It is also rumored that Accuphase's new top-of-line CDP's use the same AKM 4396 chips in multiple-parallel array.

A couple of questions:
1. The APL website talks about the Cirrus Logic 4398 chip not the AKM 4396. Am I missing something here?
2. Is this 4396 chip simply interchangeable with other DAC chips or are there consequential circuit changes required as well? (I'm wondering whether you could just specify this chip when having your DAC modded.)

Danny Richie · « **Reply #58 on:** 13 Dec 2005, 01:03 am »

Would you guys like to start a new thread for all other DAC's?

I just confirmed with Sonic Craft and they are offering the mod kit for the DAC-72 and DAC-60 for $190. That is for all the parts.

They will do all the mods for you on it for $100. labor. That's actually pretty cheap for implementing all of those parts.

I added a button on our web site to allow on line ordering of the Sonic Craft mods. They can then be ordered and shipped straight there for the mods, then shipped from there to you.

Nick V · « **Reply #59 on:** 13 Dec 2005, 02:19 am »

Danny,

Would it be too much to ask for you to post a list of the upgraded parts contained in the mod kit, if you have that information at your disposal?