[CornellAlum]

What's the new "beefy" cabinet?

[James Romeyn]

A new book in The Audio Bible: The Book of John, chapter 1, "John's Chair"....

[John Casler]

John the shroud idea is great.  Someone should produce & sell them.  It certainly appears easier to damp the immediate area around the seat vs. the entire room.  Why didn't anyone think of that before?

I think that it has limited application for "serious" two channel listeners, which means very little profit, unless you were to make it out of more applicable materials and charge big money for it.

As I said I made this one out of VMPS speaker boxes, which are quite heavy.  To damp it even further, I filled the boxes with anthing I could find around the house.  if you place your hand on the cardboard, you can feel it slightly vibrating, which means it is absorbing sonic energy.

Each box is then wrapped in a quilt, comforter or thick blanket, and then all are wrapped with matching grey or black flannel blankets, so that higher frequencies are not reflected off the boxes.

The Ceiling/Roof is 1/4 inch plywood, wrapped in the same way.

The interior is 6" x 12" x 12" wedge acoustic foam lining the sides and rear.

This is not the first time I have "tweaked around" with something like this.

Years ago, I lined a large closet with matresses (floor,  walls , and ceiling and had some KEF monitors that I played.  While it wasn't anecholic, it was rather well damped, and then too the sonic results were spectacular.

I would say that this type of tweak might apeal to the "space challenged" audiophile, as well as those who like headphone listening.

It sounds as pure as "cans" but with a lifelike soundstage, imaging and depth/dimensionality.

[hmen]

John,
 You didn't mention the high WAF    

  Another idea would be something that comes down from the ceiling at the push of a button like the cone of silence on Get Smart.

[John Casler]

 This was being done in the 70's, by the occasional audiophile. It's not that it hasn't been thought of - when I was testing out my room, I did a bunch of things that looked something like this, for some tests. But it's not practical for the masses, it rules out anything beyond 3.1 sound, and it's not cheap, or so I expect. Surrounding yourself in 6" of decent acoustical foam takes a lot of foam.
.

As I mentioned, it is not for HT, but it is "very" cheap.  The 6" foam is "overkill" . but it is what I had lying around.  

The foam is to reduce any reflections from the sound that enters the chamber from the front.

It need only be above the chair height, so it really doesn't take that much, maybe 10 - 18 tiles (12 x 12)  Remember the interior has a layer of the foam, then a flanel blanket, then a comforter, then the cardboard box, outer layer.

If it could be manufactured in a form that was trivial to set up and tear down, though, it could be a boon to serious audiophiles who CANNOT, for non-negotiable reasons, treat their room.

For the rather industrious, it could probably be made out of connectable fiberglass panels.  While it is obvious I had little concern for the "look" of the chamber, those with a "design aesthetic" could probably create a very attractive if not great looking unit.

Again, I envision it being useful to the audiophile who has been relegated to a rather small bedroom as a dedicated room and is not interested in spending all the dough to thoroughly treat the room for reflections.

It could be created at many sonic levels.  My intention was to block and absorb most of the HF and much of the mids, so I could hear deeper into a recording.

It does not affect bass other than the fact that it likely acts as a "lightweight" blocking and absorbing device.  That is, bass traveling feom the front of the room is likely "slightly absorbed" as it passes through (remember the boxes are filled with old towels, clothing and just about anything I could fine like magazines, more cardboard, packing material, and then small weights are also placed in and on the cartons to damp them a bit from the bass energy.

I have no idea, what frequencies it might affect or reach down to.

John's design here is interesting - I bet it doesn't block much below 150Hz, and probably nothing below 60Hz or so - so you're still free to plant a sub anywhere in the room you like. It will block very little from the ceiling - blankets absorb next to nothing and mostly diffuse a bit - so there might be enough early reflection from the ceiling to fill in a little ambience. And of course, that bulk of foam in the center of the room is going to amount to significant "single mass treatment" for the room as a whole.

The roof of the chamber (as I might have mentioned before) is carboard, and 1/4" plywood wrapped in a comforter and blanket, with another blanket placed over the top to allow  portion of it to hang down in front (as shown) to block absorb HF from the ceiling.  So it does block ceiling reflections pretty much.  There is no room generated ambience, which is the idea.

Bass traps would still be needed since this does not have the ability to manage any low frequencies to any great degree.

It won't treat the bass much of any, unless maybe the chair is parked at a bass mode, which I kind of doubt. It will absorb significant treble, though. I suspect things sound kind of odd *outside* the Chair of John... but the new C-D design might help fix that.

Hey John, what did it cost to assemble?

This certainly a "budget tweak" is not to take the place of "serious room treatment", it is a simple solution for those who might find it a fun tweak.

Cost wise I made it from things I had around the house.

If some one wanted to do a "serious version". I'm sure in your business, you could provide them with materials and ideas on how to improve it to be more attractive as well as effective, if it is applicable to their listening and room limitations.

[John Casler]

What's the new "beefy" cabinet?

That is what I call the RM30 cabinet MLS is building for the RM30.

Just look at the thickness of the baffles on that thing!!!

[BrunoB]

It looks a bit like this, except I now have the front in a matching color.

It is primarily designed to further remove the room reflected sound at the listening area.

It certainly is not a system everyone could use, but for those in small dedicated rooms it is an alternative to attempting to treat room reflections on the walls.

Nearfield listening is stunning in its reality.

Very interesting. It reminds me my  "Sound Cocoon" but in a smaller scale. I should have visited you while I was still in the US.  Could you post  a picture taken from the listening position? I wonder how much reflected sound coming from the front and side walls can enter the tent.

Bruno

[dubravko]

I'd like to know would it be a normal CDWG speakers ability to have them positioned wider than non-CDWG in two-channel listening, but without losing a good center fill? Were there any such comparisons so far?

[James Romeyn]

My only comment relative to your question about center fill is that, at Brian's, my first audition of the RM30-CDWG, I thought the center fill was better than I'd ever heard before, eliminating virtually any desire for a center fill channel in a multi-channel system.

Dubravko, it's only my opinion, but I believe you should prepare for this invention to rock your listening world.  It is an absolute breakthrough as far as I can tell, with no downside beyond the ones B has already articulcated.

We've all heard various levels of image layering & staging, some bad, some good, some superlative.  Especially at John B's, with his insane tube amps, modded SACD player, & vinyl, there was not only a palpability of instrument location, size, & layering, but my imagination was stimulated so much that it filled in players & their clothing, even expressions on their faces, hand/arm movements, glistening of horns played.  I know this is nutz, but this was the power in the reproduction chain to suspend disbelief & stimulate the proper sensory cues.  I've heard really really good performance in shows in gargantuan rooms with hundreds of thousands of dollars in hardware, but never this level of performance (in this particular parameter) like at John's.

[John Casler]

Very interesting. It reminds me my  "Sound Cocoon" but in a smaller scale. I should have visited you while I was still in the US.  Could you post  a picture taken from the listening position? I wonder how much reflected sound coming from the front and side walls can enter the tent.

Bruno

Hi Bruno,

Yes, you are welcome any time, you're back in the States.

I get very little reflection in general.

Sorry about the quality of this pic, but it shows the 6" wedge on the front wall.  But underneath that is a layer of "moving blanket, and under that 1/2 carpet foam.

I even have 6" wedge foam sitting in front of my amps, since I can hear the reflection off of them (when everything else is so damped, small things jump out)

I now also listen "MUCH" closer.  I beleive I am about 5.5' to 6' from the RM30s.

This is looking in from the left side (not from the listening position).  The purple looking object on the right is the left side of the listening chamber (which is actually a charcoal grey, but photographs purple)

As you can tell, I don't have to worry about WAF



View from the right side:

[James Romeyn]

John your room is totally nutz (in a good way, with all due respect...), like something from the sequel to Blade Runner or a short article at the end of the local news featuring an eccentric inventor...it makes Brian's LEDE affair look tame & almost normal, if that is possible...I'd not pass up a visit for anything if I was in SoCal.

[dubravko]

Dubravko, it's only my opinion, but I believe you should prepare for this invention to rock your listening world. It is an absolute breakthrough as far as I can tell, with no downside beyond the ones B has already articulcated.

I'm only curious since it will be at least three months before I could make my own comparisons. So far all upgrades delivered, I'm not at all in fear of having too big expectations. While I don't receive my own for various speakers, I'm all ears for other people's experience.

I like Trinaural very much. It has it's issues, although not so much of itself, but related to more complicated adjusting of everything. However, with given loudspeakers and in a good room, for me it makes it easier to feel that I'm listening to a "live soundfield", than it is with two channel. It's not only center filling thing, but system also interacts with room differently, and loads a listener with a real sound coming from the center. Making it much like it with just two loudspeakers pretty wide apart would be a great thing.

One of my first experiences with Trinaural was in almost 100% LEDE room. I tried several loudspeaker positions, and all of them worked fine in their own way. I could just choose which I liked best, since none of them sounded bad, or irritating, tiring etc. In non-LEDE rooms, which are all the rest, things are different. In my opinion the biggest issue in making Trinaural sound great is managing and understanding how three speakers interact with each other. Problems may occur from bass to lower treble, which in practice means throughout the spectrum. Therefore, I also hope that CDWG will help making those interactions smoother and more manageable in living rooms, at least in range covered by CDWG.

[jakepunk]

I would be interested to know the effects of a CDWG applied to an RM30 center channel (only) in an existing Trinaural configuration.

[James Romeyn]

Why, so you can pass these secrets on to Dr. Evil, for some awful nefarious purpose?

[jakepunk]

Muhahahahaha!

My question is largely academic since like dubravko, I love my trinaural.  It opens up the music, provides great detail, and the soundstage is incredible.  I am very happy with my 3 channel setup.  I was wondering that if the CDWG provides some of the same benefits to 2-channel reproduction, does implementing it on the center speaker (only) improve that effect even more in a 3 channel setup?  How about the dream scenario of a trinaural array of 3 RM30s each with the CDWG?  Again, this is largely academic.  Just wondering.

[James Romeyn]

Just the kind of lie Dr. Eveeeeeeeeil would concoct!!!!!!!!!!

[John Casler]

John your room is totally nutz (in a good way, with all due respect...), like something from the sequel to Blade Runner or a short article at the end of the local news featuring an eccentric inventor...it makes Brian's LEDE affair look tame & almost normal, if that is possible...I'd not pass up a visit for anything if I was in SoCal.

Hi Jim,

Well I know that some totally "wig Out" to the point that their head explodes, if their room and system don't look like something out of AV Interiors.

Since most all of my listening is "solo" and also done with eyes closed in a dark room, my concern about the "look" is not critical.

I can say however, that the "SONIC" of this arrangement is like something I have never heard.

You can hear deeper into a recording with this set up, than anything, in my experience, and that was the goal of the tweak.

[csero]

Hi Jim,
I can say however, that the "SONIC" of this arrangement is like something I have never heard...

.. and also like something you will never hear in any real live aucoustic event .  

[John Casler]

Hi Jim,
I can say however, that the "SONIC" of this arrangement is like something I have never heard...

.. and also like something you will never hear in any real live aucoustic event .  

If it is a well done "LIVE" recording, it is closer than anything I have heard in a normal room and audio system.

[John B]

My room is now even more Bladerunnerish.  Two 6ft. tall Echo Buster Phase 4 Absorber/Dispersion monoliths.   These things are totally cool.  One behind each speaker, and you can dial in the soundstaging and other room effect parameters you want just by rotating them in a circle.    The wife even likes them.